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werner schneider
Joined: 24 May 2021
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:21 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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Hello Folks,
never though about it but now with 2 partners things do just happen 
You can energize the ground power plug only via an external battery connection, however, when you later disconnect external power, the solenoid does stay energized, if someone forgets to switch off the power plug, this seems to have happened and in 4 days the battery was empty Anybody who has tackled that problem in a way that the solenoid controlling the power plug does disconnect, when external power is disconnected? the ground power plug is in the top left corner of the diag.
Cheers Werner
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werner schneider
Joined: 24 May 2021
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:34 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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If I remove that 24 AWG wire it should be ok shoulent it?
Now just wonder why I did add that wire!!
Werner
On 09.02.2022 11:21, werner schneider wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Folks,
never though about it but now with 2 partners things do just happen
You can energize the ground power plug only via an external battery connection, however, when you later disconnect external power, the solenoid does stay energized, if someone forgets to switch off the power plug, this seems to have happened and in 4 days the battery was empty Anybody who has tackled that problem in a way that the solenoid controlling the power plug does disconnect, when external power is disconnected? the ground power plug is in the top left corner of the diag.
Cheers Werner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505945#505945
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/glastar_ykp_1_7_a3_817.pdf
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werner schneider
Joined: 24 May 2021
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:38 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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Sorry,
not my day it seems, that is not a 24 AWG it's the 2AWG and I can not
leave it out.
On 09.02.2022 11:34, Werner Schneider wrote:
| Quote: |
<glastar(at)gmx.net>
If I remove that 24 AWG wire it should be ok shoulent it?
Now just wonder why I did add that wire!!
Werner
On 09.02.2022 11:21, werner schneider wrote:
>
> <glastar(at)gmx.net>
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> never though about it but now with 2 partners things do just happen
>
> You can energize the ground power plug only via an external battery
> connection, however, when you later disconnect external power, the
> solenoid does stay energized, if someone forgets to switch off the
> power plug, this seems to have happened and in 4 days the battery was
> empty Anybody who has tackled that problem in a way that the
> solenoid controlling the power plug does disconnect, when external
> power is disconnected? the ground power plug is in the top left
> corner of the diag.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505945#505945
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/glastar_ykp_1_7_a3_817.pdf
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:44 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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At 04:21 AM 2/9/2022, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "werner schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Hello Folks,
never though about it but now with 2 partners things do just happen
You can energize the ground power plug only via an external battery connection, however, when you later disconnect external power, the solenoid does stay energized, if someone forgets to switch off the power plug, this seems to have happened and in 4 days the battery was empty Anybody who has tackled that problem in a way that the solenoid controlling the power plug does disconnect, when external power is disconnected? the ground power plug is in the top left corner of the diag. |
This is not an uncommon problem with incorporation of the
Cole-Hersey style ground power jack. The big-daddy
of ground power jacks has a third pin that sequences
closure of contactor with respect to mating and demating
of power pins . . . it also manages power to the ground
power contactor preventing the situation you've
observed.
https://tinyurl.com/y9579yvo
I've had this discussion with readers over the
years but not sure if we hashed it out here on
the List. Waaayy back when, one of my readers
installed the AEC9005 battery management module
on his ground power contactor. Seems he ONLY
used this jumper cables when ground power was
supplied by an engine driven source (above 13.5
volts).
Under what circumstances did the switch-left-on
event occur? If you're using ground power to
supplement/substitute for ship's battery
to crank the engine, then presumably someone
is at the controls. Perhaps a light on the panel
to indicate CONTACTOR CLOSED would help.
Another option is to install a timer that
limits on-time for the contactor. A simple
circuit could be crafted to shut the contactor
down after, say 5 minutes after being energized.
If you only use ground power to jumper to engine
driven power source or a battery charger, then
the voltage sensitive management of contactor
function seems like the best bet. But this
would be a pain in the you-know-what for
battery cart starts.
If only intended to support an engine cranking
operation, then you could add a relay to
prevent energizing the ground power contactor
until the starter contactor is also commanded
to close.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1925
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:51 am Post subject: Re: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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Attached is a circuit that will shut off ground power contactor when master switch is turned off.
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Joe Gores |
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werner schneider
Joined: 24 May 2021
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:37 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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Thanks a lot Bob,
the weak battery has a cold problem, so it was charged to warm up with low Amps which helpes (until we have the new battery).
As teh switch is a bit out of sight (rule is switch off before disconnect) he forgot about it.
I think I need to add a flashing light somewhere to remind him.
Thanks for confirmation
Werner
On 09.02.2022 16:43, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 04:21 AM 2/9/2022, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "werner schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net> (glastar(at)gmx.net)
Hello Folks,
never though about it but now with 2 partners things do just happen
You can energize the ground power plug only via an external battery connection, however, when you later disconnect external power, the solenoid does stay energized, if someone forgets to switch off the power plug, this seems to have happened and in 4 days the battery was empty Anybody who has tackled that problem in a way that the solenoid controlling the power plug does disconnect, when external power is disconnected? the ground power plug is in the top left corner of the diag. |
This is not an uncommon problem with incorporation of the
Cole-Hersey style ground power jack. The big-daddy
of ground power jacks has a third pin that sequences
closure of contactor with respect to mating and demating
of power pins . . . it also manages power to the ground
power contactor preventing the situation you've
observed.
https://tinyurl.com/y9579yvo
I've had this discussion with readers over the
years but not sure if we hashed it out here on
the List. Waaayy back when, one of my readers
installed the AEC9005 battery management module
on his ground power contactor. Seems he ONLY
used this jumper cables when ground power was
supplied by an engine driven source (above 13.5
volts).
Under what circumstances did the switch-left-on
event occur? If you're using ground power to
supplement/substitute for ship's battery
to crank the engine, then presumably someone
is at the controls. Perhaps a light on the panel
to indicate CONTACTOR CLOSED would help.
Another option is to install a timer that
limits on-time for the contactor. A simple
circuit could be crafted to shut the contactor
down after, say 5 minutes after being energized.
If you only use ground power to jumper to engine
driven power source or a battery charger, then
the voltage sensitive management of contactor
function seems like the best bet. But this
would be a pain in the you-know-what for
battery cart starts.
If only intended to support an engine cranking
operation, then you could add a relay to
prevent energizing the ground power contactor
until the starter contactor is also commanded
to close.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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werner schneider
Joined: 24 May 2021
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:41 am Post subject: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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Thanks Joe,
so you can only charge/start when you push the momentary switch, or the
master is on.
But interesting idea, will have to think about.
Cheers Werner
On 09.02.2022 16:51, user9253 wrote:
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1925
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: Re: ground power deep discharge of battery |
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With my circuit, both the master switch must be on and the momentary switch pushed in order to energize the ground power contactor.
Installing an indicator light would be easier, but the light could be overlooked.
Regardless, a fuse should be installed in series with the contactor coil to protect against reverse polarity.
There is a 50-50 chance of the ground power battery being connected backwards.
If the polarity is backwards, the diode that is across the contactor coil will conduct a large current and blow the fuse that you are going to install.
Hopefully that will happen quick enough to prevent damage to expensive avionics.
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Joe Gores |
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