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What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:02 am Post subject: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Starting thread for this week.  We drove to SNF last week.



Jim

goff

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 71

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

A little bit of Europa bliss.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUhjXriv2hg

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:00 am Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Had a good time last week with the Europa bunch at SnF. Working on the condition inspection this week. So far no issues found except for a little play on the starboard aileron at the QD. 

Chris

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:29 am Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Cute video goff 



My kids are now older teenagers and sometimes it is hard to drag them to the Europa. But when I am successful (generally when it involves having to go somewhere 5 hours away in car, 1.5 hours in the Europa) they have a blast!



I really hope I will be able to enjoy a grandkid one day!



Best,

Chris

phillik747

Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Birminham, AL USA

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

I hope to be able to fly my teenagers around before they move out. I was fabricating the oil bracket for the 912.

_________________
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Finally......got around to starting the installation of the fairings between main gear spats and legs....fitted and removed about 100 times before satisfied.Â  Â 



Now have to to nutplates and the the upper fuze/leg fairings.

And then have to fill and sand...and paint

Never done....



William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246



On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 13:38 phillik747 <helperpsp(at)gmail.com (helperpsp(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "phillik747" <helperpsp(at)gmail.com (helperpsp(at)gmail.com)>

 

 I hope to be able to fly my teenagers around before they move out. I was fabricating the oil bracket for the 912. 

 

 

 

 --------

 Kyle

 Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506573#506573

 

 

 

 

 

 

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:06 am Post subject: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Still troubleshooting the newish 80hz fuse resonance (at)5kish rpmâ€¦..only at cruiseâ€¦. Replaced the isolation rubber with Lordâ€™s (very soft). Had to reduce the spacer lengths to 1.5â€ to deal with the very large startup and shutdown movements of the high compression 912S. Also had to cut through the cowling (ugh) to lower the oil can, to avoid the header hitting it during the swings. Also had to clearance the footwells for the same reason, as well as the airbox.

The plane is much quieter now tho!

Cheers,

PeteZ

C-GNPZ



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:50 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:



ï»¿Finally.....got around to starting the installation of the fairings between main gear spats and legs....fitted and removed about 100 times before satisfied.   



Now have to to nutplates and the the upper fuze/leg fairings.

And then have to fill and sand...and paint

Never done....



William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246



On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 13:38 phillik747 <helperpsp(at)gmail.com (helperpsp(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "phillik747" <helperpsp(at)gmail.com (helperpsp(at)gmail.com)>

 

 I hope to be able to fly my teenagers around before they move out. I was fabricating the oil bracket for the 912. 

 

 

 

 --------

 Kyle

 Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506573#506573

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ===========

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 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

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 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:29 am Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Pete,



I had the same issue with the vibration when I got over 5000 RPM. Did an analysis which I include as attachment. You can see how the vibration spikes as the engine RPM crosses 5000 RPM and it is indeed a peak corresponding to the engine RPM frequency. 



Clive Sutton had a theory that maybe the carburetors where resonating and causing issues. 



According to RPX (DynaVibe) they indicated it was a carb balance issue at those RPM. Bud once had a writeup on how he had issues with carbs not working in unison because of age and only going to new carbs solved the issue. Since the carbs were a bit old that is certainly a possibility.



But I have to report that I bought a new engine and the vibration is gone. 



Can I conclude it was a problem with the engine? no I can't because before before I flew the airplane with the new engine I removed the cone K&N air filters I had and installed the cold air plenum (too many changes). So three possible reasons:



1.- Something off with the old overhauled engine (kind of broad)

2.- Old carburetors coming out of balance at high end

3.- Vibration on the unsupported carburetors. I was told my carb support spring were a little soft. 



For some time I thought the culprit could be something in the airframe resonating but with the vibration going away with the engine change that is not high on my list.



I hope this helps.

Chris

211210_Europa N11EU Vibration Analysis.pdf

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Thanks Chris!

Indeed my Smart avionics balancer spectrums were identical to your attached report.Â  Nice to see I'm not alone!Â  ....and I'm not going crazy  



Question:Â  do you know if your old engine had experienced "case fretting"?

I checked my carb balance throughout the RPM/throttle range, and they are indeed fine in the 4400-5600rpm and throttle ranges in question. Diaphragm tensions also felt identical.Â  I did however replace the rubber carb mounts, which would indeed change the resonant frequency of the carb assemblies. I have tried moving the spring mounts further away on the tube, adding tension...no difference. Â Â  Your suggestion however will prompt me to try adding some mass to the airbox - to see if the resonance moves down the rpm range..... sweet.Â  I was running out of things to try LOL.



Â As my resonance only occurs at cruise speeds and loads and not in the climbs, I was suspecting possible aero causes (as the three blade prop pulses are also in that 80ishHz range) and instrumented the tail etc.Â  but to no avail - nothing different than when I instrument the tunnel mount points, so nothing is getting excited back there.Â  So I'm back to the engine, or something on it going into resonance. I have already eliminated the exhaust from the possibilities by springing and massing it with no change.



I have obviously also looked for any hard interferences between the engine and the airframe - none.

The mystery continues.....Â  but I hope messing with the airbox mass may give me a clue.

Cheers and thx again!

PeteZ

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 11:36 AM n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com (chmgarb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com (chmgarb(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Pete,

 

 I had the same issue with the vibration when I got over 5000 RPM. Did an analysis which I include as attachment. You can see how the vibration spikes as the engine RPM crosses 5000 RPM and it is indeed a peak corresponding to the engine RPM frequency. 

 

 Clive Sutton had a theory that maybe the carburetors where resonating and causing issues. 

 

 According to RPX (DynaVibe) they indicated it was a carb balance issue at those RPM. Bud once had a writeup on how he had issues with carbs not working in unison because of age and only going to new carbs solved the issue. Since the carbs were a bit old that is certainly a possibility.

 

 But I have to report that I bought a new engine and the vibration is gone. 

 

 Can I conclude it was a problem with the engine? no I can't because before before I flew the airplane with the new engine I removed the cone K&N air filters I had and installed the cold air plenum (too many changes). So three possible reasons:

 

 1.- Something off with the old overhauled engine (kind of broad)

 2.- Old carburetors coming out of balance at high end

 3.- Vibration on the supported carburetors. I was told my carb support spring were a little soft. 

 

 For some time I thought the culprit could be something in the airframe resonating but with the vibration going away with the engine change that is not high on my list.

 

 I hope this helps.

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=506582#506582

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/211210_europa_n11eu_vibration_analysis_728.pdf

 

 

 

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:52 am Post subject: Re: What did you do with your Europa 4/11 - 4/18

Hi Pete,



Well, we are all a bit cray but no, you are not alone 



The engine I had was rebuilt by a Rotax Repair Center (actually recommended by Rotax). Had a number of very unique issues with this engine until I decided I wanted to spend more time flying than learning how to fix a Rotax (which I really did!) so I bought a new engine (honestly, best investment in my airplane so far).



But I saw no evidence of case fretting. 



One day I will repeat the analysis with the new engine just for the fun of it. But I can tell you that with the new engine the feel is very different. 



BTW, after a long chat with Phil Lockwood he explained to me how a simple issue with an older gearbox could cause vibration in the same way I was feeling. Basically a small depression where the clutch dogs rub. If this is not caught during rebuild he says it can generate vibration and it feels as if a switch was flipped at very specific RPMs.  My gearbox had been "rebuilt" but who knows. 



My lesson with the Rotax so far is that it is a wonderful engine but a bit finicky. It seems that small things will make it run not as smooth. But maybe I am wrong in my assessment. We will see how my experience with a new engine from the start is.



Best Regards,

Chris

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