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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:33 pm Post subject: The culprit |
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William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: The culprit |
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Will…Can you describe the location of the crack in the tank?…F.
| Quote: | On Jul 16, 2022, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
<PXL_20220716_164328200.jpg>
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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spcialeffects
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:14 am Post subject: Re: The culprit |
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And is it possible to scale the photo down to get it into a page so you can View the whole thing?
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:36 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Top "shelf" horizontal part....just to the right ot the reinforcement which was stuck pretty hard.
In other words exactly where youd expect stress.
The tank material is in pretty good shape. However when i put in the tank many years ago i followed the manual. It is glued in very well.....very well 
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 23:48 Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>
Will…Can you describe the location of the crack in the tank?…F.
> On Jul 16, 2022, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
> <PXL_20220716_164328200.jpg>
===========
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eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Mallard
Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Will, Xmas before last I had a leak which turned out to be a fuel hose that had been sawn through by the rudder cable. During the course of asking for help here on the forum & before I found the cause, someone said that their tank developed a crack & he cut an access opening on the top big enough to get 2 hands in, to weld the crack.
Would this solution be easier for you, rather than removing the complete tank?
Cheers
James
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 1:35:28 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: The culprit
Top "shelf" horizontal part....just to the right ot the reinforcement which was stuck pretty hard.
In other words exactly where youd expect stress.
The tank material is in pretty good shape. However when i put in the tank many years ago i followed the manual. It is glued in very well.....very well
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 23:48 Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>
WillCan you describe the location of the crack in the tank?F.
> On Jul 16, 2022, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
> <PXL_20220716_164328200.jpg>
===========
pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:17 am Post subject: The culprit |
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James,
What did you use to "weld" the tank?
Duncan McF. | Quote: | On 17 July 2022 at 14:56 James <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:
Will, Xmas before last I had a leak which turned out to be a fuel hose that had been sawn through by the rudder cable. During the course of asking for help here on the forum & before I found the cause, someone said that their tank developed a crack & he cut an access opening on the top big enough to get 2 hands in, to weld the crack.
Would this solution be easier for you, rather than removing the complete tank?
Cheers
James
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 1:35:28 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: The culprit
Top "shelf" horizontal part....just to the right ot the reinforcement which was stuck pretty hard.
In other words exactly where youd expect stress.
The tank material is in pretty good shape. However when i put in the tank many years ago i followed the manual. It is glued in very well.....very well
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 23:48 Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>
Will…Can you describe the location of the crack in the tank?…F.
> On Jul 16, 2022, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
> <PXL_20220716_164328200.jpg>
===========
pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Mallard
Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:13 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Duncan,
It wasn't me who had a cracked tank. I'll have to search through the forum to find out who it was and get back to you.
James
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:16:45 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: The culprit
James,
What did you use to "weld" the tank?
Duncan McF. | Quote: | On 17 July 2022 at 14:56 James <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:
Will, Xmas before last I had a leak which turned out to be a fuel hose that had been sawn through by the rudder cable. During the course of asking for help here on the forum & before I found the cause, someone said that their tank developed a crack & he cut an access opening on the top big enough to get 2 hands in, to weld the crack.
Would this solution be easier for you, rather than removing the complete tank?
Cheers
James
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 1:35:28 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: The culprit
Top "shelf" horizontal part....just to the right ot the reinforcement which was stuck pretty hard.
In other words exactly where youd expect stress.
The tank material is in pretty good shape. However when i put in the tank many years ago i followed the manual. It is glued in very well.....very well
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 23:48 Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>
WillCan you describe the location of the crack in the tank?F.
> On Jul 16, 2022, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
> <PXL_20220716_164328200.jpg>
===========
pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
_________________
Seat of my pants |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:10 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Everything now ripped out. What a job. So much for hdpe not sticking to epoxy! The lay up delaminated rather than release the hdpe.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 06:14 James <james(at)kingdom.ie (james(at)kingdom.ie)> wrote:
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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spcialeffects
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent
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Mallard
Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Will,
The Europa owner Dave Disney gave me the following (in red) info regarding the work he did on his fuel tank.
I had to cut a hole in the top of the tank to gain access so I cut some of the material I cut out into strips to use as 'welding rods'. I used a small hot air gun to soften the tank and rods to complete the welding process. It was a bit of a pain to do and I had to develop a repair scheme for the LAA which included strengthening the area between the headrests where I cut the access hole.
In many ways I'm glad I did the repair this way. The LAA specify that I must remove the tank top panel every annual for inspection. This gives me access to inside the tank so I can check the welded area and clean out any debris from the tank. If I ever fitted a new tank, I would cut an access to it in the same way so I can inspect the tank internally.
Regards
James
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: 18 July 2022 12:10
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: The culprit
Everything now ripped out. What a job. So much for hdpe not sticking to epoxy! The lay up delaminated rather than release the hdpe.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 06:14 James <james(at)kingdom.ie (james(at)kingdom.ie)> wrote:
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
_________________
Seat of my pants |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:41 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Interesting. So rather like welding a polyethylene landfill liner, which process is Environment Agency approved!
Duncan McF. | Quote: | v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]--> On 18 July 2022 at 19:23 James <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:
Will,
The Europa owner Dave Disney gave me the following (in red) info regarding the work he did on his fuel tank.
I had to cut a hole in the top of the tank to gain access so I cut some of the material I cut out into strips to use as 'welding rods'. I used a small hot air gun to soften the tank and rods to complete the welding process. It was a bit of a pain to do and I had to develop a repair scheme for the LAA which included strengthening the area between the headrests where I cut the access hole.
In many ways I'm glad I did the repair this way. The LAA specify that I must remove the tank top panel every annual for inspection. This gives me access to inside the tank so I can check the welded area and clean out any debris from the tank. If I ever fitted a new tank, I would cut an access to it in the same way so I can inspect the tank internally.
Regards
James
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: 18 July 2022 12:10
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: The culprit
Everything now ripped out. What a job. So much for hdpe not sticking to epoxy! The lay up delaminated rather than release the hdpe.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 06:14 James <james(at)kingdom.ie (james(at)kingdom.ie)> wrote:
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:47 am Post subject: The culprit |
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I wonder whether the fluorination process enables a good epoxy to plastic bond? My early (non fluorinated) tank debonded from the supports at an early stage, so 'floats' about with (possibly) less stress points. Or was yours also not the later tank?
Duncan mcf | Quote: | On 18 July 2022 at 12:10 William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Everything now ripped out. What a job. So much for hdpe not sticking to epoxy! The lay up delaminated rather than release the hdpe.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 06:14 James <james(at)kingdom.ie (james(at)kingdom.ie)> wrote:
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:15 pm Post subject: The culprit |
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Can anyone confirm a date when kits with the fluorinatied tanks began to be shipped from the factory? | Quote: | On Jul 19, 2022, at 2:46 AM, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net (ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
I wonder whether the fluorination process enables a good epoxy to plastic bond? My early (non fluorinated) tank debonded from the supports at an early stage, so 'floats' about with (possibly) less stress points. Or was yours also not the later tank?
Duncan mcf
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: The culprit |
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My kit was bought in 2003. Given the state of the tank i am reasonably sure that if i hadnt glued it in place there would not have been an issue.
The plastic was definitely not brittle.
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 20:17 fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com) <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can anyone confirm a date when kits with the fluorinatied tanks began to be shipped from the factory?
| Quote: | On Jul 19, 2022, at 2:46 AM, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net (ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
I wonder whether the fluorination process enables a good epoxy to plastic bond? My early (non fluorinated) tank debonded from the supports at an early stage, so 'floats' about with (possibly) less stress points. Or was yours also not the later tank?
Duncan mcf
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:02 am Post subject: The culprit |
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Dunno, but my 2001 was reportedly factory fluorinated, but after i had it “redone” the surface finish was markedly different (frosted)…. So there are degrees i would assume fwiw.
PeteZ
| Quote: | On Jul 19, 2022, at 9:21 PM, fklein(at)orcasonline.com wrote:
Can anyone confirm a date when kits with the fluorinatied tanks began to be shipped from the factory? | Quote: | On Jul 19, 2022, at 2:46 AM, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net (ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
I wonder whether the fluorination process enables a good epoxy to plastic bond? My early (non fluorinated) tank debonded from the supports at an early stage, so 'floats' about with (possibly) less stress points. Or was yours also not the later tank?
Duncan mcf
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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