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Firestar KXP
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kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: Firestar KXP

Just picked up a 2005 KXP and have it at my house to do some maintenance after purchase.  curious if I can run the engine and taxi around with the wings off it?  looking at getting the engine up to temps while taxing around the neighborhood (dead end street), but want to do it safely.



looking over the engine (Rotax 447), looks like I'll been some new spark plug wires.  any recommendations where to get. some new ones?



Thanks.

Jeremy

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Another question pin size for when the wings are folded back against the boom.



I used 5/16 but. they are really small and tried 1/8 and they seemed too tight.



Thanks 

Jeremy

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:32 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

As a general rule I am NOT a safety monitor but I don't think you will 

have a good experience trying to taxi without wings.



The wings are mostly behind the CG so not having them will make your CG 

move towards the nose. Add your weight to that and you might be nearly 

balanced on the main gear. Then add a little burst of high centerline 

thrust and you just might be looking at a nose over situation.



Then there is the obvious "someone might come up behind you and run into 

a spinning prop". Could happen even with wings but a lost less likely.



I don't like to run up any aircraft on the ground without being tied 

down unless I am planning on moving it.



My Firefly will lift the tail at about half throttle even with me not in 

the seat. After the first try with a fairly long rope tied to the tail 

it was obvious that it needed to be tied down tight right at the tail wheel.



Don't take this as a warning, I don't do those, but think of it as 

something to think about.



End of unsolicited opinion.





On 12/18/22 13:46, kolbflyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just picked up a 2005 KXP and have it at my house to do some maintenance after purchase.  curious if I can run the engine and taxi around with the wings off it?  looking at getting the engine up to temps while taxing around the neighborhood (dead end street), but want to do it safely.



 looking over the engine (Rotax 447), looks like I'll been some new spark plug wires.  any recommendations where to get. some new ones?



 Thanks.

 Jeremy





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509706#509706

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Thank you for your feedback and thinking about the CG issue could be an issue rather quickly.  I've thought about the spinning prop issue too and it's not worth the risk.



thanks again.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Since you have a dead end street, why not just tie the tailwheel to something like your riding lawnmower, or the trailer hitch on your beater vehicle, point the tail down the street so you don't beat the shrubbery to death, then you can run it until just before the neighbors get annoyed and watch for traffic/kids at the same time.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

I think that is going to be my plan: unfold the wings, secure it to something substantial, and then start ups and run till operating temps.  that should give me a pretty good feeling for proper start up and what to watch for.



I don't have any of the building manuals, curious what size pin is suppose to be used for securing the folded wing to the back of the boom.  1/8" seems slightly too big and 5/16" seems way too small.

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Does this tailwheel look like an issue?  I've been trying to come up with a way to move the plane around with the wings folded, but haven't found the right solution. but when I was moving it around on the platform in the picture, it seems like the the whole wheel and support is moving a lot on the tail bar coming from the plane.



it looks like the piece that the wheel is attached to and it the pivot point needs some added support.  I looks like it could fold over if there was enough side loading.



anyone have pictures of their tailwheel attachment point to see if my setup is wrong or how to reinforce it.



Thanks

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jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:05 am Post subject: Firestar KXP

I know you said you don't have any manuals and nobody has mentioned it but you probably should know the wing folding posts on the under side of the wings and the tube at the tail are not meant for transporting the craft that way. They are only meant for moving the plane around by hand such as into and out of the hangar and for storage. It's not heavy duty enough for much bouncing without damaging things. Same goes for the tailwheel when transporting. One needs to support the boom at the tail as well as the leading edges of the wings for transport if the wings aren't removed completely. 



I know I just installed and drilled my post the other day to 1/8" dia hole so I'm assuming a 1/8" pin or smaller. I'll try to get a photo of the pins and their dia later when I work on the plane this evening. I'm not sure as to what you are referring to as 1'8" but perhaps that is an extension for the pin? The first Kolb I bought had a coat hanger or welding rod welded to the pins to make them longer so you could insert and remove them easier from back by the rudder. I'll try to get a picture of that too. I might be able to run over there during lunch.



Jay

 

 

 



Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 at 9:31 AM

From: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Firestar KXP




I think that. is going to be my plan: unfold the wings, secure it to something substantial, and then start ups and run till operating temps. that should give me a pretty good feeling for proper start up and what to watch for.



I don't have any of the building manuals, curious what size pin is suppose to be used for securing the folded wing to the back of the boom. 1'8" seems slightly too big and 5/16" seems way too small.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509724#509724

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Jay,

Thank you very much for everything.  I guess if I plan to trailer the plane back and forth to the airport, I'm going to have to come up with some other support system.



Thanks for the pin recommendation, I have some wire hangers that I could use as a pin when moving it around and such.



Sorry, for the HUGE pictures, had no idea they would post that size.



Jeremy

jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:49 am Post subject: Firestar KXP

Here are the photos I just took. The pins are 3/32" dia in my kit that hold the folding wing stubs (mounted to a plate on the main wing spar) into the tube that goes perpendicular through the boom tube near the tail. The one photo shows the tailwheel assy of my first plane which looks just like yours, the 2nd is of the one I am building with the pin and rod from plane 1 on plane 2. The rod is much more substantial than I remembered.



Jay

 

 

 



Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 at 12:14 PM

From: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Firestar KXP




Jay,

Thank you very much for everything. I guess if I plan to trailer the plane back and forth to the airport, I'm going to have to come up with some other support system.



Thanks for the pin recommendation, I have some wire hangers that I could use as a pin when moving it around and such.



Sorry, for the HUGE pictures, had no idea they would post that size.



Jeremy





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509729#509729

tronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List][http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List[http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List]]

[http://forums.matronics.com[http://forums.matronics.com]]

p://wiki.matronics.com[http://wiki.matronics.com]]

tribution][https://matronics.com/contribution[https://matronics.com/contribution]]

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jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: Firestar KXP

2nd photo



Jay

 

 

 



Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 at 12:14 PM

From: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Firestar KXP




Jay,

Thank you very much for everything. I guess if I plan to trailer the plane back and forth to the airport, I'm going to have to come up with some other support system.



Thanks for the pin recommendation, I have some wire hangers that I could use as a pin when moving it around and such.



Sorry, for the HUGE pictures, had no idea they would post that size.



Jeremy





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509729#509729

tronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List][http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List[http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List]]

[http://forums.matronics.com[http://forums.matronics.com]]

p://wiki.matronics.com[http://wiki.matronics.com]]

tribution][https://matronics.com/contribution[https://matronics.com/contribution]]

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kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

thats a great pic of the pin system, did you weld the rod onto a pin?



I really like that idea.



Thanks

jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:36 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

No, that pin and rod welded to it were from the builder of the first Kolb I bought. I like the idea but the pin is 1/8" and stiff to get on the tube and the rod is heavy. I might adapt that to the 3/32 pins that came with my kit and use a lighter rod like a 1/8 steel welding rod then paint it all. 



As for moving the plane around I was thinking about doing something like you would use to move a trailer around by hand called a trailer dolly. Harbor fright sells one but it would need adapted for the tailwheel instead of a ball or you could easily make one using lawnmower wheels and some steel but the idea would be the same. I would guess someone on the list might have made one and could get a photo out.



Jay

 



Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 at 1:20 PM

From: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Firestar KXP




thats a great pic of the pin system, did you weld the rod onto a pin?



I really like that idea.



Thanks





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509735#509735

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:24 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

For the Aeronca Chief I had we made a "Tail Dragger Dragger". We bought 

the plans at Oshkosh one year and made it up in the shop. There are lots 

of versions of them out there.



I also cobbled one together for the firefly so it was easier to move 

around on the apron and in the hangar as it had a concrete floor.



Here is a link to one: 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/taildragger.php



Pretty sure it is too big for the Kolb tail wheels but you get the idea.

On 12/19/22 14:36, Jay Dub wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 No, that pin and rod welded to it were from the builder of the first Kolb I bought. I like the idea but the pin is 1/8" and stiff to get on the tube and the rod is heavy. I might adapt that to the 3/32 pins that came with my kit and use a lighter rod like a 1/8 steel welding rod then paint it all.



 As for moving the plane around I was thinking about doing something like you would use to move a trailer around by hand called a trailer dolly. Harbor fright sells one but it would need adapted for the tailwheel instead of a ball or you could easily make one using lawnmower wheels and some steel but the idea would be the same. I would guess someone on the list might have made one and could get a photo out.



 Jay

   



 Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 at 1:20 PM

 From: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Firestar KXP

 



 thats a great pic of the pin system, did you weld the rod onto a pin?



 I really like that idea.



 Thanks





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509735#509735

kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

I looked at those and they all seems to have an issue with the steerable tailwheel in that if you need to swing the tail to one side or another, you can't pivot around the tailwheel itself.  the dolly would have to have some type of castor on it also that would allow the tailwheel to stay inline and the dolly wheels to pivot in the direction you need (like a lazysusan with a slot the tailwheel would fit into.



the bigger issue is that I have it in a pop-up garage that is on gravel.  Nothing moves well on gravel with that tail wheel size.



If I plan to keep. it in this popup garage, I'll have to make some type of boom\wing support on larger wheels, which will take some engineering to clear everything.



thanks everyone for all the feedback, it's much appreciated.

ridefst

Joined: 18 Oct 2019
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:50 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

If all goes as planned, I've attached a couple images that I have saved around.

I think these originally came from Kolb themselves (probably are on this list already, but I couldn't find them with a quick search), it's definitely nothing I've built, but I was considering it when I was storing on gravel also.

I usually just picked up the rear by the tailwheel, but that really wasn't all that much fun!

[img]cid:ii_lbvbtw160[/img][img]cid:ii_lbvbtw1d1[/img][img]cid:ii_lbvbtw1i2[/img][img]cid:ii_lbvbtw1m3[/img][img]cid:ii_lbvbtw1r4[/img]



On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 4:38 PM kolbflyer <j-lauer(at)live.com (j-lauer(at)live.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kolbflyer" <j-lauer(at)live.com (j-lauer(at)live.com)>

 

 I looked at those and they all seems to have an issue with the steerable tailwheel in that if you need to swing the tail to one side or another, you can't pivot around the tailwheel itself.  the dolly would have to have some type of castor on it also that would allow the tailwheel to stay inline and the dolly wheels to pivot in the direction you need (like a lazysusan with a slot the tailwheel would fit into.

 

 the bigger issue is that I have it in a pop-up garage that is on gravel.  Nothing moves well on gravel with that tail wheel size.

 

 If I plan to keep. it in this popup garage, I'll have to make some type of boomwing support on larger wheels, which will take some engineering to clear everything.

 

 thanks everyone for all the feedback, it's much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509738#509738

 

 

 

 

 

 

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lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:46 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

Everyone has chipped in to try to ease your path forward, past things

that have plagued us all. I'm afraid that I had decided that the list

was mostly gone. I am pleased that apparently that isn't so.



I have dug through some pictures that I had that will show you some of

my solutions to various problems that you are facing now. One of the

weak points of the Kolbs is the little tail wheel. They worked for

Homer, as intended, but some of us have different challenges. My

tailwheel post snapped off as I was taxiing for takeoff. John Hawk

helped me put braces on it after repair. You will notice that I

installed the steerable tail wheel as well. I also made a handle to

pull the Firestar out of the hangar with. The tail is light enough

that you can lift it over if necessary. Some scrap steel and a welder

will handle the problem quite nicely.



luck

Larry



On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:38 PM kolbflyer <j-lauer(at)live.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 I looked at those and they all seems to have an issue with the steerable tailwheel in that if you need to swing the tail to one side or another, you can't pivot around the tailwheel itself.  the dolly would have to have some type of castor on it also that would allow the tailwheel to stay inline and the dolly wheels to pivot in the direction you need (like a lazysusan with a slot the tailwheel would fit into.



 the bigger issue is that I have it in a pop-up garage that is on gravel.  Nothing moves well on gravel with that tail wheel size.



 If I plan to keep. it in this popup garage, I'll have to make some type of boomwing support on larger wheels, which will take some engineering to clear everything.



 thanks everyone for all the feedback, it's much appreciated.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509738#509738

============
	


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============

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kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Larry,

thank you so much. for the pictures and the support.  Glad I was able to bling a little more life to this site.



I do have a question about the vertical support to the tailwheel under. the boom, does this provide additional strength to the tailwheel?   Is there a way to build a more robust tailwheel. or maybe differential braking that would allow a casting tailwheel and easier to move around on the ground?



I've seen that full boom\wing support in other searches and that will take some manufacturing and supplies to see how to make it.  I think I found the original plans to build it also.



Thanks and I look forward to keeping this alive for others to use.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:23 pm Post subject: Firestar KXP

When my tail wheel post broke, the entire thing collapsed onto the

ground. The front attachment is only to keep it in line with the boom

tube.



In my opinion the way that the tail wheel is set up is the only weak

spot and it is that the strength of the rudder is limited to the spar

that is dependant on one single flat weld. Much as if you were to

stand a two by four on it's end and glue it vertically to a flat

board. Then apply side loads to it. Enough turns where the tail

(cookie cutter) wheel is skidded rather than rolled. Failure is only a

matter of time.  The brace can be even a flat alum bar, or in my case

a bit of left over 1/2 inch round with the ends flattened will perform

wonders. If you notice on the yellow picture there is a breakaway tail

wheel mounted back there. As I recall I got my first one from Kolb,

but Aircraft Spruce has them as well.



https://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/tailwheels_homebuilders.html



This is the one that I have. I see they have gone up in price, imagine that!



I did find it necessary to change the moment of breakaway to a point

that almost full deflection was required to get it to break when

landing.



The weight is about 12 lbs, but other than when I lift the tail

manually I have not noticed any adverse effects.



Larry

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kolbflyer

Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 23

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Firestar KXP

Larry,

thanks for the link to an upgraded tailwheel.  which one is a direct mount, if any?



additionally, did you add those vertical bars to both sides to support the tailwheel assembly or just one side?



Thanks again and hope you have a great holiday.



Jeremy

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