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Air Oil Separators

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luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Any make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list.

  

 Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one?  I found none on ebay for airplanes.  I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find.

  

 For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose?

  

 thx,

 lucky

 do not archive

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

lucky wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Any make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see 

 such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know 

 anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list.

  

 Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one?  I found none on ebay 

 for airplanes.  I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find.

  

 For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you 

 modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose?

  

 thx,

 lucky

 do not archive


	


Lucky, IMHO the oil separators cover up a more pressing problem ..... 

blowby.  From what I've heard, almost all separators work ..... kinda. 

 They'll keep the belly cleaner if that's your goal.  However, instead 

of returning the crud back to your engine, you can drain it into some 

kind of removeable cup ...... or even a long loop of clear hose that you 

can see and drain at your convenience.  One look at the stuff that's 

been siphoned off will make you glad you didn't route it back to the engine.

The problem is that the acid that is produced naturally by combustion 

doesn't get vented overboard as well as it should.

Linn



Check the archives.

do not archive

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

I'll keep this short. There are lots of suggestions in the Archives. We  tried four different type/styles/sizes, bottom line:     DONT.

 IF you collect ANYTHING,`     IF you install one, the very  last thing you want is to dump the "goop" back into the engine.

 ANYTHING that restricts the vents air flow causes "backpressure" inside the  case & that causes leaks at covers, cylinders, case joints etc etc. Run the  line FULL size to an area where anything that MIGHT drip hits the exhaust  pipe. IO-540 J4A5 HRII almost 300 hrs  

 KABONG  Do Not Archive (its in there)

 [quote]   ---

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:14:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Any    make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a    wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who is    actually using one so this one goes out to the list. 	


 

 ============================

  

 Get the 3/4" dia port one from Wicks (P/N OIL-BS3/4) for around $50 and do  the pot scrubber mod defined in the archives.  It's a no brainer.   

 GV (RV-6A  N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 801hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)

luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Thanks, it's more like $87.50 now and looks suspiciously like the $50 one in ACS!

  

 lucky

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  -------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Vanremog(at)aol.com 

   In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:14:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Any make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who is actually using one so this one goes out to the list. 	


  

 ============================

  

 Get the 3/4" dia port one from Wicks (P/N OIL-BS3/4) for around $50 and do the pot scrubber mod defined in the archives.  It's a no brainer.   

 GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 801hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

In a message dated 7/30/2006 4:47:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Thanks, it's more like $87.50 now and    looks suspiciously like the $50 one in ACS!

    

   lucky

    

    	  Quote: 	
		  --------------      Original message -------------- 

From: Vanremog(at)aol.com 

               In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:14:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,      luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  Any        make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a        wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who        is actually using one so this one goes out to the      list. 	


      

     ============================

      

     Get the 3/4" dia port one from Wicks (P/N OIL-BS3/4) for around $50 and      do the pot scrubber mod defined in the archives.  It's a no brainer.      

	
	


 

 Ask ACS why they don't sell the 3/4" port version.  They are made by  the same company.

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

In a message dated 07/30/2006 12:14:53 PM Central Daylight Time, luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one?  I found none on ebay for airplanes.  I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find. 	


 >>>>

  

 See: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5172

  

 and click >>Next Entry>> at top of page for more info on my prosecution of this "problem".  Also, do NOT dump crap from separators back into your expen$ive engine- if the engine wanted this crap in there in the first place, it wouldn't have puked it out!

  

 From The PossumWorks in TN

 Mark Phillips do not archive

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

I'm not convinced on these things...not sure if the one on my purchased RV-4 is clogged or what, but the belly get's just as dirty in 4 flights than it would without one.  I've got a return going into the crank case, and and exit going out by the exaust, and am getting ALOT of oil on the belly after 8-10 hours if I don't clean it regularly.

   

  Again, it may be clogged or something, but unfortunately there is no way to take it apart and see.

   

  Paul Besing

  



lucky <luckymacy(at)comcast.net> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		    Any make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list.

   

  Anyone using the "experimental"  $45 round one?  I found none on ebay for airplanes.  I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find.

   

  For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose?

   

  thx,

  lucky

  do not archive

rveighta(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

I'm sure I'm far from being the most knowledgeble builder on the list,

 but it seems to me that automotive mfgrs recycle oil back through their

 engines without detriment and without puddles of oil on the garage

 floor.

  

 My own experience with seperators has been with the cheapest one I 

 could find initially (ACS P/N 10570) on my RV-8A. I didn't stuff it with

 brillo pads or anything like that, and man, did  oil cover the belly!

  

 Eventually, I began looking at other seperators and sucumbed to the

 claims of the M-20 & RMJ, both of which recycle oil back to the engine.

 The M-20, I believe, is certified and used on lots of different production

 aircraft. Being cheap, however, I bought the RMJ and after about ten

 hours of operation the belly is still relatively clean and my oil loss is down.

  

 I'm not sure how much improvement I'm seeing because I haven't kept 

 exact records, but my best guess is that I'm loosing about a quart every

 ten hours now versus a quart every 4-5 hours previously.

 Do not archive

  

 Walt Shipley  RV-8A flying, RV-8 Canopy (argh)

 

 

 [quote]--

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

The oil might not be coming from the vent. It doesn't take a very big leak to make a real mess.

 

 Dave

 

 Paul Besing wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		     I'm not convinced on these things...not sure if the one on my purchased RV-4 is clogged or what, but the belly get's just as dirty in 4 flights than it would without one.  I've got a return going into the crank case, and and exit going out by the exaust, and am getting ALOT of oil on the belly after 8-10 hours if I don't clean it regularly.

    

   Again, it may be clogged or something, but unfortunately there is no way to take it apart and see.

    

   Paul Besing

   

   

   lucky <luckymacy(at)comcast.net> (luckymacy(at)comcast.net) wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       Any make/model preference on these things?  I was surprised to see such a wide range of options in the ACS catalogue.  I don't know anyone who is actally using one so this one goes out to the list.

      

     Anyone using the "experimental" $45 round one?  I found none on ebay for airplanes.  I thought this would be an easy salvage item to find.

      

     For those that are routing the oil back into the engine, are you modifying the dip stick housing to accept a return hose?

      

     thx,

     lucky

     do not archive

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

OK, I'll add a little to our story. We installed three separators (one at a0 time), put in reducers to make them fit, 3/4" ID down to the sizes on the0 separator, looped in a high point, put a relief hole in the top of the loop and0 tried everything anyone could recommend to make them work & not soil the0 belly. Blow-by did not seem to be a problem (newly rebuilt) BUT too much oil in0 the sump and ANY restriction of the vent line resulted in oil leaks. Two of the0 case/cover leaks disappeared & have stayed gone as soon as we ran the0 vent full line size without restriction. Two other leaks area were lessened but0 we loosened the bolts holding them, added RTV & retorked them.0 

 If we overfill by a cup, we get a cup of oil on the belly. We did reinstall0 the full sized rubber line with a high loop and that solved our problem. Your0 invited out & can stick your finger up in the vent line and you'll get it0 dirty but not enough oil to form a single drop.

 I realize that this is anecdotal and your mileage may differ BUT you0 would have to talk long & loud to get us to put any separator back on0 N561FS. HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive.  KABONG  (GBA &0 GWB)

  

 ---

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

What level (how many quarts) do you consider full0 oil ?  and which engine ?

 Dale Ensing

 do not archieve 

  	  Quote: 	
		      Blow-by did not seem to be a problem0   (newly rebuilt) BUT too much oil in the sump and ANY restriction of the vent0   line resulted in oil leaks. If we overfill by a cup, we get a cup of oil0   on the belly. We did reinstall the full sized rubber line with a high loop and0   that solved our problem. Your invited out & can stick your finger up in0   the vent line and you'll get it dirty but not enough oil to form a single0   drop.

   I realize that this is anecdotal and your mileage may differ BUT you0   would have to talk long & loud to get us to put any separator back on0   N561FS. HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive.  KABONG  (GBA &    GWB)

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

HR II, IO-540 J4A5, 8 1/2 in the dipstick. HRII is taildragger so anything0 with a nose gear might change the reading. "Your" engine will tell you when it0 has too much and throws out the excess until it's happy. 

 Your mileage may differ.  KABONG Do Not Archive. 

 [quote]   ---

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

On 31 Jul 2006, at 10:19, rveighta wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'm sure I'm far from being the most knowledgeble builder on the list,

 but it seems to me that automotive mfgrs recycle oil back through  

 their

 engines without detriment and without puddles of oil on the garage

 floor.


	


Autos are burning fuel without lead, in liquid-cooled engines with  

smaller bores that can have much tighter clearances.  I'm betting  

there is less blow by in an auto engine, and the blow by will contain  

different stuff.  Plus automotive and aviation oil have different  

additive packages.  Current automotive engines were designed to  

accept the blow by gasses, but I believe it goes into the induction  

air, rather than back into the oil as some have proposed for our  

aircraft engines.



The auto engine experience may not be relevant.  Given the cost of  

engine overhauls, I'm not too keen to put something different inside  

my engine (crud from the air-oil separator), unless there is a huge  

wealth of service experience behind it.



Kevin Horton

Ottawa, Canada

Charles Heathco

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Enough may have been said about this, but my 3200 will throw out anything over 7 qt, and I let it go down to 6 1/2 qt where I keep0 it and I get very little oil on the belly at that reading. As for the0 separators, from what I have heard from a few who had them, they are a waste of0 money. Charlie Heathco

Morocketman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Roger on the info regarding Air/Oil Separators!  I had too much oil on the belly of my IO-540 powered Harmon Rocket II.  Tried everything I could think of regarding the vent line size, loop up and over, aimed at the exhaust, etc.  The Separator did no good at all.

  

 I let the oil quanity go down to 9 1/2 (per someone's suggestion)0and vola!   I have never seen below 8 1/2.  And yes, I do find myself adding one pint sometimes.  But easier than Washing the Belly.  My Lycoming manual says 12 qt system, with minimum (bet you cannot believe this) of 2 qts.  Yes!  Two quarts minimum.  I can't remember my IO-360 minimum, but recall that it was equally scary.  Give it a try-------you'll like it.

  

 Les Featherston  HRII  "Airgasm" has 277 hours.

rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

I had a bunch of oil on the belly, the fix, cheap ACS round air oil seperator with 2 stainless pot scrubbers stuffed inside. Now, no oil on the belly, just a slight mist about 1~2 feet back from the tube which is not on the exhaust. I have made a few for others but dont know if they monitor the list here to comment.



Morocketman(at)aol.com wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		      Roger on the info regarding Air/Oil Separators!  I had too much oil on the belly of my IO-540 powered Harmon Rocket II.  Tried everything I could think of regarding the vent line size, loop up and over, aimed at the exhaust, etc.  The Separator did no good at all.

   

  I let the oil quanity go down to 9 1/2 (per someone's suggestion) and vola!   I have never seen below 8 1/2.  And yes, I  do find myself adding one pint sometimes.  But easier than Washing the Belly.  My Lycoming manual says 12 qt system, with minimum (bet you cannot believe this) of 2 qts.  Yes!  Two quarts minimum.  I can't remember my IO-360 minimum, but recall that it was equally scary.  Give it a try-------you'll like it.

   

  Les Featherston  HRII  "Airgasm" has 277 hours.

	




  		How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low  PC-to-Phone call rates.

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Both figures were for HRII N561FS, 90 1/2 to 10 at the oil change. 8 1/2 on the dip stick is "normal" cold0 operating range  +/- half a quart. KABONG Do Not Archive  (GBA &0 GWB)

 [quote]   ---

Gary.A.Sobek

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Air Oil Separators

Have tried with and without oil separator and with modified oil separator.  

There is less blow by with the oil separator and even less with the Scott 

Billinski modified oil separator.  After the number of hour on the airplane, 

there is still oil on the belly but some of it is from the SMOKE system. The 

smoke system makes the belly easier to clean as it softens the exhaust gas 

deposits.



The drain from the oil separator goes back into the engine and has always 

done so.  Note the numbers of hours in the past almost 9 years of flying.



Gary A. Sobek

"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,

1,921+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA

http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com

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