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Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other

 
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2023 6:50 am    Post subject: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
Whats is the consensus on the best oil.
I have used the Aeroshell sport PLUS 4 oil up to now mainly because I used AVGAS in Colombia.  (Mogas was of doubtful quality.)
I have since heard that lost of people use Mobil Synthetic.
Any thoughts?
William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246

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Area-51



Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2023 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
From memory, there may be a discussion about this subject on Recreational Flyer forum site, or Rotax page on matronics.

The issue with using similar motorcycle grade oils in the 912 is that they do not have additives for high altitude situations above 4000' i think it was... otherwise they worked fine; some with less burn-off between oil changes. Aeroshell also has an additive to flock lead from the oil and transport it to the reservoir.

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budyerly@msn.com



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Florida USA
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 4:33 pm    Post subject: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
Will,
Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Aeroshell SP4) is good for either Mogas (AKI 91 or R+M/2) of 91 or 92 and is fine also with 100LL IAW Rotax Service letters and experience.
 
Any other oil must have the proper gearbox additives used in motorcycles as Area 51 noted also.  We used to use Mobile MX4T (now known as Racing 4T Motorcycle oil) which is a motorcycle/ATV oil using additives for gearboxes bathed in engine oil.  Do not use regular Mobile One in a Rotax although many did until after 2011-2012 914-SB-19??  or so when the guidance changed due to the gearbox additive not found in Mobile 1 which may have caused some gearbox issues of which the Rotax Gods kept secret and Rotax went hard over for Aeroshell SP4.  Primary reason was Aeroshell doesn’t change their oil without notice as auto oil manufacturers do.  If you use TCP and SP4 the lead settles in the tank when the oil cools.  As you all know I change oil every 25-30 hours anyway as I believe in routine 25 hour inspections and since I use and will continue to use 100LL it keeps the oil can cleaner.  You also know I don’t follow hearsay and do my own research (Have internet, will research!).
 
Miscellaneous Ramblings:
If using Super Premium Auto Fuel AKI 91 (whatever the local station calls it) we never had a problem with the Mobile MX4T but there were starting issues if the gas was old.  But even at a higher oil change interval, look at the cost difference:
 
I fly less than most of you, so Aeroshell SP4 is cost effective.  SP4 is about $11-15 a quart and MX4T is about $12-15 a quart.  Depending on where you buy it.  I buy the SP4 a case at a time (12 quarts) for about $135 including shipping, and the 4T is about $86 for 6 quarts plus shipping.  Again, depending on where you buy your oil costs change.  Since only a few airports across the US carry MOGAS of 91 AKI, I can’t avoid leaded AVGas use.  I stick with the SP4.  Do I religiously use the TCP fuel additive?  Well, I try to.  If cross country and I need oil and the FBO does not stock SP4, I use either the Valvoline semi synthetic motorcycle oil or Mobil MX4T to add if my oil level gets low for some reason.
 
Although some say a full synthetic oil only has to be changed every 100 Hrs, I’m afraid I have not bought into that.  Florida is hot, humid, and iron gears are prone to rusting.  Synthetics are great oils, but I personally am not inclined to be a test case due to our high humidity conditions and the lack of coating Mobile one seems to have in comparison to standard oil on the gears when the plane sets for weeks/months.
 
AVGas is averaging now (on cross country) about $7 (Sebring is $5) and Premium 92 Octane R+M/2 is about $4/gallon in Tampa.  If I fly 25 hours a year how much do I save at 5-6 gal/hr with a 25 hour oil change. (Note I really only flew the Europa 10 hours last year.)  My gas use would be 137 gallons and an oil change is about 3 quarts.  Avgas/SP4 at 5.5GPH $962+33 for oil =$995 but normally with my discount $688+45=$732 and 91AKI Mogas use would cost in my area (My FF is 5.8 GPH at 31 inches on Shell Supreme fuel) $582 + 45= $625 and I must now consider I can’t get reliable MOGAS on cross country at the nice airports, however I still have to worry about bad or old gas that has been setting at the airport and in my airplane.  For me it is not that much of a difference over a years worth of flying but, if you only fly local and fly 300 hours a year, you can save quite a bit.  Those folks overseas that can get good super supreme fuel at airfields and go 50 hours between oil changes can save enough to pay a month’s hangar fee and or a month’s worth of insurance so it’s worth it for those overseas to look for alternatives due to their high fuel costs and oil availability.  For me, in the Tampa Florida area, it just isn’t worth the stagnant fuel issues since I fly so little and SP4 works and is relatively cheap to buy for a specialty oil.  As far as auto fuel goes vs 100LL, my particular 914 likes 100LL.  It starts really fast.  No worries about kickback on start with that fuel, no matter how old it is.  With ethanol laced super MoGas only available here in Tampa, I find that by using 100LL fuel, my carbs are always clean and have stayed tuned for 4 years, the floats don’t sink and my float bowls look like new.  Others in the area are not so lucky that fuel with ethanol gas. 
 
Note, I had Lockwood do a 500 Hr top overhaul of my 914 running 100LL with TCP and SP4 oil and Rotax Filter.  The engine was unbelievably clean on the inside.  The oil tank holds the lead in suspension like it is supposed to.  The only thing I find is, in the oil filter there are small chunks of carbon from the turbo.  There is a new Service Bulletin on the 914 turbo can which changes the design and adds a filter screen.  It may set too close to my duct so I doubt I can change it without lowering the duct.  I’ll see how much it costs.  I like the design but, I probably will be shocked by the price.  To tell you the truth I can’t wait for the new unleaded AVGas either.  I bet the AVGas price jumps 30% initially when it comes out.
 
So, the choice is yours.  Research and do your own math for your flying needs and fuel/oil costs.  I wouldn’t skimp on fluids though.  Good fresh gas, and good oil are a must.  Maintenance becomes more of a time change requirement with proper fluids.  Do the inspections and time changes and your plane will reward you with only periodic maintenance and leave you more money for upgrades.
 
You all know what keeps an airplane flying don’t you….MONEY!
 
Bud Yerly
 
 
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2023 10:50 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other

 
Whats is the consensus on the best oil.

I have used the Aeroshell sport PLUS 4 oil up to now mainly because I used AVGAS in Colombia.  (Mogas was of doubtful quality.)

I have since heard that lost of people use Mobil Synthetic.

Any thoughts?

William Daniell

LONGPORT


+1 786 878 0246

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Duncan McFadyean



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 3:35 am    Post subject: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
Getting an oil with enough ZDDP (anti-scuff) is an issue, with this substance being now very diminished in any oil that could be used in an engine with a catalyst (because the Zinc contaminates the catalyst).
Aeroshell SP4 has loads and the new Rotax synthetic oil * is suggestive that it does too (in its comment: Not recommended in automotive applications with catalytic aftertreatment systems).
Sometimes the MSDS will say how much ZDDP is present, other times not. But if the gearbox screeches momentarily on shutdown, chances are your oil doesn't have enough.
*ROTAX-XPS-Datasheet-A4-2304-RZ.indd (flyrotax.com)
Duncan McF.
Quote:
<![endif]--> Clean Clean DocumentEmail false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE <![endif]--> <![endif]-->/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning:1.0pt; mso-ligatures:standardcontextual;} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]--> On 07 May 2023 at 01:33 Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> wrote:


Will,
Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Aeroshell SP4) is good for either Mogas (AKI 91 or R+M/2) of 91 or 92 and is fine also with 100LL IAW Rotax Service letters and experience.

Any other oil must have the proper gearbox additives used in motorcycles as Area 51 noted also. We used to use Mobile MX4T (now known as Racing 4T Motorcycle oil) which is a motorcycle/ATV oil using additives for gearboxes bathed in engine oil. Do not use regular Mobile One in a Rotax although many did until after 2011-2012 914-SB-19?? or so when the guidance changed due to the gearbox additive not found in Mobile 1 which may have caused some gearbox issues of which the Rotax Gods kept secret and Rotax went hard over for Aeroshell SP4. Primary reason was Aeroshell doesn’t change their oil without notice as auto oil manufacturers do. If you use TCP and SP4 the lead settles in the tank when the oil cools. As you all know I change oil every 25-30 hours anyway as I believe in routine 25 hour inspections and since I use and will continue to use 100LL it keeps the oil can cleaner. You also know I don’t follow hearsay and do my own research (Have internet, will research!).

Miscellaneous Ramblings:
If using Super Premium Auto Fuel AKI 91 (whatever the local station calls it) we never had a problem with the Mobile MX4T but there were starting issues if the gas was old. But even at a higher oil change interval, look at the cost difference:

I fly less than most of you, so Aeroshell SP4 is cost effective. SP4 is about $11-15 a quart and MX4T is about $12-15 a quart. Depending on where you buy it. I buy the SP4 a case at a time (12 quarts) for about $135 including shipping, and the 4T is about $86 for 6 quarts plus shipping. Again, depending on where you buy your oil costs change. Since only a few airports across the US carry MOGAS of 91 AKI, I can’t avoid leaded AVGas use. I stick with the SP4. Do I religiously use the TCP fuel additive? Well, I try to. If cross country and I need oil and the FBO does not stock SP4, I use either the Valvoline semi synthetic motorcycle oil or Mobil MX4T to add if my oil level gets low for some reason.

Although some say a full synthetic oil only has to be changed every 100 Hrs, I’m afraid I have not bought into that. Florida is hot, humid, and iron gears are prone to rusting. Synthetics are great oils, but I personally am not inclined to be a test case due to our high humidity conditions and the lack of coating Mobile one seems to have in comparison to standard oil on the gears when the plane sets for weeks/months.

AVGas is averaging now (on cross country) about $7 (Sebring is $5) and Premium 92 Octane R+M/2 is about $4/gallon in Tampa. If I fly 25 hours a year how much do I save at 5-6 gal/hr with a 25 hour oil change. (Note I really only flew the Europa 10 hours last year.)  My gas use would be 137 gallons and an oil change is about 3 quarts. Avgas/SP4 at 5.5GPH $962+33 for oil =$995 but normally with my discount $688+45=$732 and 91AKI Mogas use would cost in my area (My FF is 5.8 GPH at 31 inches on Shell Supreme fuel) $582 + 45= $625 and I must now consider I can’t get reliable MOGAS on cross country at the nice airports, however I still have to worry about bad or old gas that has been setting at the airport and in my airplane. For me it is not that much of a difference over a years worth of flying but, if you only fly local and fly 300 hours a year, you can save quite a bit. Those folks overseas that can get good super supreme fuel at airfields and go 50 hours between oil changes can save enough to pay a month’s hangar fee and or a month’s worth of insurance so it’s worth it for those overseas to look for alternatives due to their high fuel costs and oil availability. For me, in the Tampa Florida area, it just isn’t worth the stagnant fuel issues since I fly so little and SP4 works and is relatively cheap to buy for a specialty oil. As far as auto fuel goes vs 100LL, my particular 914 likes 100LL. It starts really fast. No worries about kickback on start with that fuel, no matter how old it is. With ethanol laced super MoGas only available here in Tampa, I find that by using 100LL fuel, my carbs are always clean and have stayed tuned for 4 years, the floats don’t sink and my float bowls look like new. Others in the area are not so lucky that fuel with ethanol gas.

Note, I had Lockwood do a 500 Hr top overhaul of my 914 running 100LL with TCP and SP4 oil and Rotax Filter. The engine was unbelievably clean on the inside.  The oil tank holds the lead in suspension like it is supposed to. The only thing I find is, in the oil filter there are small chunks of carbon from the turbo. There is a new Service Bulletin on the 914 turbo can which changes the design and adds a filter screen. It may set too close to my duct so I doubt I can change it without lowering the duct. I’ll see how much it costs. I like the design but, I probably will be shocked by the price. To tell you the truth I can’t wait for the new unleaded AVGas either. I bet the AVGas price jumps 30% initially when it comes out.

So, the choice is yours. Research and do your own math for your flying needs and fuel/oil costs. I wouldn’t skimp on fluids though. Good fresh gas, and good oil are a must. Maintenance becomes more of a time change requirement with proper fluids. Do the inspections and time changes and your plane will reward you with only periodic maintenance and leave you more money for upgrades.

You all know what keeps an airplane flying don’t you….MONEY!

Bud Yerly


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2023 10:50 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other


Whats is the consensus on the best oil.

I have used the Aeroshell sport PLUS 4 oil up to now mainly because I used AVGAS in Colombia. (Mogas was of doubtful quality.)

I have since heard that lost of people use Mobil Synthetic.

Any thoughts?

William Daniell

LONGPORT


+1 786 878 0246









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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Area-51



Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
Think some of the AGIP hi performance oils were pegged as suitable but don't quote me on that... goo point on the ZDDP... Anybody have any thoughts on adding colloidal graphite?

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 9:31 pm    Post subject: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other Reply with quote
Thanks BudSo Ill stick with sp4

William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sun, May 7, 2023, 04:35 Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:

Quote:

Will,
Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 (Aeroshell SP4) is good for either Mogas (AKI 91 or R+M/2) of 91 or 92 and is fine also with 100LL IAW Rotax Service letters and experience.
 
Any other oil must have the proper gearbox additives used in motorcycles as Area 51 noted also.  We used to use Mobile MX4T (now known as Racing 4T Motorcycle oil) which is a motorcycle/ATV oil using additives for gearboxes bathed in engine oil.  Do not use regular Mobile One in a Rotax although many did until after 2011-2012 914-SB-19??  or so when the guidance changed due to the gearbox additive not found in Mobile 1 which may have caused some gearbox issues of which the Rotax Gods kept secret and Rotax went hard over for Aeroshell SP4.  Primary reason was Aeroshell doesn’t change their oil without notice as auto oil manufacturers do.  If you use TCP and SP4 the lead settles in the tank when the oil cools.  As you all know I change oil every 25-30 hours anyway as I believe in routine 25 hour inspections and since I use and will continue to use 100LL it keeps the oil can cleaner.  You also know I don’t follow hearsay and do my own research (Have internet, will research!).
 
Miscellaneous Ramblings:
If using Super Premium Auto Fuel AKI 91 (whatever the local station calls it) we never had a problem with the Mobile MX4T but there were starting issues if the gas was old.  But even at a higher oil change interval, look at the cost difference:
 
I fly less than most of you, so Aeroshell SP4 is cost effective.  SP4 is about $11-15 a quart and MX4T is about $12-15 a quart.  Depending on where you buy it.  I buy the SP4 a case at a time (12 quarts) for about $135 including shipping, and the 4T is about $86 for 6 quarts plus shipping.  Again, depending on where you buy your oil costs change.  Since only a few airports across the US carry MOGAS of 91 AKI, I can’t avoid leaded AVGas use.  I stick with the SP4.  Do I religiously use the TCP fuel additive?  Well, I try to.  If cross country and I need oil and the FBO does not stock SP4, I use either the Valvoline semi synthetic motorcycle oil or Mobil MX4T to add if my oil level gets low for some reason.
 
Although some say a full synthetic oil only has to be changed every 100 Hrs, I’m afraid I have not bought into that.  Florida is hot, humid, and iron gears are prone to rusting.  Synthetics are great oils, but I personally am not inclined to be a test case due to our high humidity conditions and the lack of coating Mobile one seems to have in comparison to standard oil on the gears when the plane sets for weeks/months.
 
AVGas is averaging now (on cross country) about $7 (Sebring is $5) and Premium 92 Octane R+M/2 is about $4/gallon in Tampa.  If I fly 25 hours a year how much do I save at 5-6 gal/hr with a 25 hour oil change. (Note I really only flew the Europa 10 hours last year.)  My gas use would be 137 gallons and an oil change is about 3 quarts.  Avgas/SP4 at 5.5GPH $962+33 for oil =$995 but normally with my discount $688+45=$732 and 91AKI Mogas use would cost in my area (My FF is 5.8 GPH at 31 inches on Shell Supreme fuel) $582 + 45= $625 and I must now consider I can’t get reliable MOGAS on cross country at the nice airports, however I still have to worry about bad or old gas that has been setting at the airport and in my airplane.  For me it is not that much of a difference over a years worth of flying but, if you only fly local and fly 300 hours a year, you can save quite a bit.  Those folks overseas that can get good super supreme fuel at airfields and go 50 hours between oil changes can save enough to pay a month’s hangar fee and or a month’s worth of insurance so it’s worth it for those overseas to look for alternatives due to their high fuel costs and oil availability.  For me, in the Tampa Florida area, it just isn’t worth the stagnant fuel issues since I fly so little and SP4 works and is relatively cheap to buy for a specialty oil.  As far as auto fuel goes vs 100LL, my particular 914 likes 100LL.  It starts really fast.  No worries about kickback on start with that fuel, no matter how old it is.  With ethanol laced super MoGas only available here in Tampa, I find that by using 100LL fuel, my carbs are always clean and have stayed tuned for 4 years, the floats don’t sink and my float bowls look like new.  Others in the area are not so lucky that fuel with ethanol gas. 
 
Note, I had Lockwood do a 500 Hr top overhaul of my 914 running 100LL with TCP and SP4 oil and Rotax Filter.  The engine was unbelievably clean on the inside.  The oil tank holds the lead in suspension like it is supposed to.  The only thing I find is, in the oil filter there are small chunks of carbon from the turbo.  There is a new Service Bulletin on the 914 turbo can which changes the design and adds a filter screen.  It may set too close to my duct so I doubt I can change it without lowering the duct.  I’ll see how much it costs.  I like the design but, I probably will be shocked by the price.  To tell you the truth I can’t wait for the new unleaded AVGas either.  I bet the AVGas price jumps 30% initially when it comes out.
 
So, the choice is yours.  Research and do your own math for your flying needs and fuel/oil costs.  I wouldn’t skimp on fluids though.  Good fresh gas, and good oil are a must.  Maintenance becomes more of a time change requirement with proper fluids.  Do the inspections and time changes and your plane will reward you with only periodic maintenance and leave you more money for upgrades.
 
You all know what keeps an airplane flying don’t you….MONEY!
 
Bud Yerly
 
 
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2023 10:50 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Oil - Rotax - Synthetic or other

 
Whats is the consensus on the best oil.

I have used the Aeroshell sport PLUS 4 oil up to now mainly because I used AVGAS in Colombia.  (Mogas was of doubtful quality.)

I have since heard that lost of people use Mobil Synthetic.

Any thoughts?

William Daniell

LONGPORT


+1 786 878 0246










- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
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