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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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 Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:16 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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Hello Europa friends,
I am working on prepping my wings for painting. Progress is very slow because of the record heats. To the point I am doing blocking and priming but will probably hold back on final top coat until October comes and temperatures drop a little.
But I was curious how some of you have setup the winds for painting. I primed them two years ago by setting the wing on a sawhorse at the wing root at the spar and another midway in the aileron well, leading edge up and trailing edge down with a wood block in the aileron well supporting the tip end of the wing. this worked well but I was told it is better to spray the wing horizontal, which I agree.
The problem with that idea is how to hold the tip of the wing up. I have a wingtip mounted light so could drill a larger hole were the light mounting plate is located and put a pin there. But I am concerned about the strength of the tip to be able to hold the wing.
Any experiences out there?
BTW, I am OK with spraying the parts with the surfaces vertical. I have painted all control surfaces that way to practice and prepare for the wings and fuselage. Also, it forces you to be more efficient and spray thinner coats hence less weight.
But curious about how people have dealt with this.
Chris
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alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:34 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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I had fitted the tie down mod and built a frame that screwed into this fitting. We did however paint the wings horizontal.
Alan Twigg
Motorglider
G-GIWT
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On 15 Aug 2023, at 15:23, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Europa friends,
I am working on prepping my wings for painting. Progress is very slow because of the record heats. To the point I am doing blocking and priming but will probably hold back on final top coat until October comes and temperatures drop a little.
But I was curious how some of you have setup the winds for painting. I primed them two years ago by setting the wing on a sawhorse at the wing root at the spar and another midway in the aileron well, leading edge up and trailing edge down with a wood block in the aileron well supporting the tip end of the wing. this worked well but I was told it is better to spray the wing horizontal, which I agree.
The problem with that idea is how to hold the tip of the wing up. I have a wingtip mounted light so could drill a larger hole were the light mounting plate is located and put a pin there. But I am concerned about the strength of the tip to be able to hold the wing.
Any experiences out there?
BTW, I am OK with spraying the parts with the surfaces vertical. I have painted all control surfaces that way to practice and prepare for the wings and fuselage. Also, it forces you to be more efficient and spray thinner coats hence less weight.
But curious about how people have dealt with this.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511272#511272
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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Troy manor added tip tubes to his classic wings and made custom height adjustable rolling stands that simply plug in for rigging and any wing work (i assume also for painting).
Work fantastic!
-peteZ
The only (poor) pic i have of them.
Button covered hole:
| Quote: | On Aug 15, 2023, at 10:32 AM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Europa friends,
I am working on prepping my wings for painting. Progress is very slow because of the record heats. To the point I am doing blocking and priming but will probably hold back on final top coat until October comes and temperatures drop a little.
But I was curious how some of you have setup the winds for painting. I primed them two years ago by setting the wing on a sawhorse at the wing root at the spar and another midway in the aileron well, leading edge up and trailing edge down with a wood block in the aileron well supporting the tip end of the wing. this worked well but I was told it is better to spray the wing horizontal, which I agree.
The problem with that idea is how to hold the tip of the wing up. I have a wingtip mounted light so could drill a larger hole were the light mounting plate is located and put a pin there. But I am concerned about the strength of the tip to be able to hold the wing.
Any experiences out there?
BTW, I am OK with spraying the parts with the surfaces vertical. I have painted all control surfaces that way to practice and prepare for the wings and fuselage. Also, it forces you to be more efficient and spray thinner coats hence less weight.
But curious about how people have dealt with this.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511272#511272
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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Thanks Alan and Pete for good ideas.
Since I built my wing with no tiedown mod too late for that. But the hole is intriguing. Pete, do you know if this is just a hole and relies on the strength of the tip alone or is there any structure inside to support the wing weight?
I guess since you mentioned a tube, this tube probably extends to the outer most rib which would help distribute the load.
I wonder if just a hole would be enough. The wing is not really that heavy at the tip. I do have an aluminum plate for the wingtip light so that would at least distribute the bearing load a bit around the hole. But not sure the wingtip alone is enough to hold the load. Can't remember if the spar extended into the tip. I would assume it stops at the outer rib.
Chris
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:54 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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Hi Chris,
Build pics at the hangar, and i’m laid up for a week from surgery….will check then tho (likely too late fer ya)
Cheers,
Pete
| Quote: | On Aug 15, 2023, at 11:35 AM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alan and Pete for good ideas.
Since I built my wing with no tiedown mod too late for that. But the hole is intriguing. Pete, do you know if this is just a hole and relies on the strength of the tip alone or is there any structure inside to support the wing weight?
I guess since you mentioned a tube, this tube probably extends to the outer most rib which would help distribute the load.
I wonder if just a hole would be enough. The wing is not really that heavy at the tip. I do have an aluminum plate for the wingtip light so that would at least distribute the bearing load a bit around the hole. But not sure the wingtip alone is enough to hold the load. Can't remember if the spar extended into the tip. I would assume it stops at the outer rib.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511275#511275
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:55 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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…
Note, mine are foam classic wings…..
Cheers,
PeteZ
| Quote: | On Aug 15, 2023, at 11:35 AM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Alan and Pete for good ideas.
Since I built my wing with no tiedown mod too late for that. But the hole is intriguing. Pete, do you know if this is just a hole and relies on the strength of the tip alone or is there any structure inside to support the wing weight?
I guess since you mentioned a tube, this tube probably extends to the outer most rib which would help distribute the load.
I wonder if just a hole would be enough. The wing is not really that heavy at the tip. I do have an aluminum plate for the wingtip light so that would at least distribute the bearing load a bit around the hole. But not sure the wingtip alone is enough to hold the load. Can't remember if the spar extended into the tip. I would assume it stops at the outer rib.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511275#511275
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budyerly@msn.com
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 288
Location: Florida USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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Chris,
I've painted flat and vertical. I like flat and letting it dry but it takes too long.
My painter and I simply clamped the spar firmly to a low six inch wide sawhorse so it would stay vertical, and I fitted a 2-foot piece of 3/4 ply into the aileron slot and made a couple of legs extending down to get the height and angle right. We found it easier to paint around than the tip tube and was a throw away when finished. The wide top saw horse was easy to safely clamp the spar securely.
I originally ripped and angle cut a form fitted 2x4 that was perfectly fit and we could screw in through the aileron hinge screw holes. However, it was lost somewhere in the shop, so when the first ply support above was again lost, we just ripped some ply to fit from floor to slot and put a couple vertical end triangles to keep it vertical and stable. The painters preferred that for fast setup going from prime to seal then topcoating. 4 clamps and a 4 foot square piece of ply was faster than waiting for me to install a tube support on wings that didn't have any pre built supports.
Bud Yerly
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 11:27:23 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Painting wings
--> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Alan and Pete for good ideas.
Since I built my wing with no tiedown mod too late for that. But the hole is intriguing. Pete, do you know if this is just a hole and relies on the strength of the tip alone or is there any structure inside to support the wing weight?
I guess since you mentioned a tube, this tube probably extends to the outer most rib which would help distribute the load.
I wonder if just a hole would be enough. The wing is not really that heavy at the tip. I do have an aluminum plate for the wingtip light so that would at least distribute the bearing load a bit around the hole. But not sure the wingtip alone is enough to hold the load. Can't remember if the spar extended into the tip. I would assume it stops at the outer rib.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:19 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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Chris,
I’m wondering out loud if one could easily cobble together a wooden spar mount from 2x4/6’s, cantilevering the wing as mounted on the AC? Would allow the ultimate versatility?
PeteZ
| Quote: | On Aug 15, 2023, at 12:08 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> wrote:
Chris,
I've painted flat and vertical. I like flat and letting it dry but it takes too long.
My painter and I simply clamped the spar firmly to a low six inch wide sawhorse so it would stay vertical, and I fitted a 2-foot piece of 3/4 ply into the aileron slot and made a couple of legs extending down to get the height and angle right. We found it easier to paint around than the tip tube and was a throw away when finished. The wide top saw horse was easy to safely clamp the spar securely.
I originally ripped and angle cut a form fitted 2x4 that was perfectly fit and we could screw in through the aileron hinge screw holes. However, it was lost somewhere in the shop, so when the first ply support above was again lost, we just ripped some ply to fit from floor to slot and put a couple vertical end triangles to keep it vertical and stable. The painters preferred that for fast setup going from prime to seal then topcoating. 4 clamps and a 4 foot square piece of ply was faster than waiting for me to install a tube support on wings that didn't have any pre built supports.
Bud Yerly
Get Outlook for Android
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 11:27:23 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Painting wings
--> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Alan and Pete for good ideas.
Since I built my wing with no tiedown mod too late for that. But the hole is intriguing. Pete, do you know if this is just a hole and relies on the strength of the tip alone or is there any structure inside to support the wing weight?
I guess since you mentioned a tube, this tube probably extends to the outer most rib which would help distribute the load.
I wonder if just a hole would be enough. The wing is not really that heavy at the tip. I do have an aluminum plate for the wingtip light so that would at least distribute the bearing load a bit around the hole. But not sure the wingtip alone is enough to hold the load. Can't remember if the spar extended into the tip. I would assume it stops at the outer rib.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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Once again, thanks for the replies.
Bud: What I did two years ago to prime the wings was exactly what you describe (and you can see in the picture). And it worked well. I did use another sawhorse at the aileron location and a piece of 2x4 into the aileron well.
I have learned the technique to paint on vertical surfaces, and you have to with the fuselage anyway, so not too bad. It is just a bit more stressful because there is such a miniscule line between a little too dry and sagging (but not run). Imron and Durathane were a little more thixotropic in that regards and held up better. The paint I am using is a bit unforgiving. But I got it, albeit with a slight dry application.
Pete: I thought about figuring a way to mount the wing cantilever. It would be great but require a bit of weight to keep balanced. I think I am just going to do the vertical painting. But curious to learn what people have done to do this.
Chris
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Area-51
Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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Make up a simple timber or steel frame to hang the wing off it's spar like Peter suggested and dyna bolt it into the concrete floor; paint the bottom of the wing first, let it dry for a few days, flip it and paint the top.
If you got the space to move freely do both wings at the same time.
If you are clever about it you can fashion a rotisserie function
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:46 am Post subject: Painting wings |
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No need to bolt it…..just add legs inder the wing.
| Quote: | On Aug 16, 2023, at 4:24 AM, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Make up a simple timber or steel frame to hang the wing off it's spar like Peter suggested and dyna bolt it into the concrete floor; paint the bottom of the wing first, let it dry for a few days, flip it and paint the top.
If you got the space to move freely do both wings at the same time.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511283#511283
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Area-51
Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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True but the torsional forces on the legs might be very high, and the price of the extra material might be way more than the cost of two dyna bolts 🤷🏼♂️
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Area-51
Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:22 am Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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If you support the spar in a jig at the wing root main pin position, the force required to anchor the spar at the other pin position end will be approximately 79kg + safety factor of 1.6; so two 8.0mm dyna bolts should be sufficient. 🤓
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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Thanks A51. It is certainly doable but I think I will stick to the keep it vertical method. Simpler.
Although a challenge that can be solved, what you suggest still requires thought on how to flip the wing around while painting.
Chris
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tonyvaccarella
Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Painting wings |
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Hi, I used a simple modified workhorse to hold one side of the wing through the spar - paint one side and when full cured, flip it to paint the other side. See image...
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_________________
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia |
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n7188u
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