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Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

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JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:11 pm Post subject: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

UK Classic and possibly XS owners who have recently been informed by their inspectors to comply with Mandatory Permit Directive MPD : 1998-019 R1 subject Flexible Fuel Tubing. I WANT TO SPLIT THE COST WITH YOU.



After measuring generously, the total length I need is 7 meters / 23 ft. Looking at the LAS website, I ascertain that 23 ft at £4.14/ft will cost £95.22 and probably delivery + VAT to be added. But its "provenance" is debatable, even though LAS Aerospace Ltd no doubt has impeccable credentials. https://www.lasaero.com/products/article/S03RCYQ1X



My inspector is keen for me to acquire TYGON, which fulfils the MPD requirement as "tubing manufactured from an identifiable material" and so he provided me with this link to Tubing International https://www.tubinginternational.com/cart/ which comes in at £167.24 incl shipping and VAT. That gets me a 50 ft / 15 meter roll, which is more than double what I need. Would anyone like to buy the leftover half roll from me for, shall we say, £70.00 incl shipping?



Looking forward to a stampede of replies. Jonathan

Davidcripps

Joined: 09 Aug 2021
Posts: 40

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:11 pm Post subject: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Jonathan



I’d be interested in this as am in the process of changing all fuel lines, including sight gauges.



Do you want to email me off forum to avoid clogging things up here?



dpc(at)knightonweb.com



Thanks



David



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 17 Feb 2023, at 20:15, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 UK Classic and possibly XS owners who have recently been informed by their inspectors to comply with Mandatory Permit Directive MPD : 1998-019 R1 subject Flexible Fuel Tubing. I WANT TO SPLIT THE COST WITH YOU.

 

 After measuring generously, the total length I need is 7 meters / 23 ft. Looking at the LAS website, I ascertain that 23 ft at £4.14/ft will cost £95.22 and probably delivery + VAT to be added. But its "provenance" is debatable, even though LAS Aerospace Ltd no doubt has impeccable credentials. https://www.lasaero.com/products/article/S03RCYQ1X

 

 My inspector is keen for me to acquire TYGON, which fulfils the MPD requirement as "tubing manufactured from an identifiable material" and so he provided me with this link to Tubing International https://www.tubinginternational.com/cart/ which comes in at £167.24 incl shipping and VAT. That gets me a 50 ft / 15 meter roll, which is more than double what I need. Would anyone like to buy the leftover half roll from me for, shall we say, £70.00 incl shipping?

 

 Looking forward to a stampede of replies. Jonathan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510219#510219

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

David,



I've tried to send a reply to you via Gmail and Yahoo mail, but keep getting rejected with messages like "No such address exists". Here's what I was trying to send:



Great that you replied so quickly. I'm probably going to place my order in the next couple of days and hopefully it won't take too long to arrive. Tomorrow morning Sat 18th I'll be doing my biennial flight review, which might not happen until afternoon depending on weather. I'm usually able to receive PPR requests etc, for our club between 10:00 and 22:00. Please give me call at your convenience, but it might go to a voicemail message saying "Longside airfield...... etc".



My mobile number is no longer necessary, because I finally managed to send an email through Yahoo.



Regards,

Jonathan

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Jonathan,



I certainly do not know LAA requirements, but I can share my sight gauge and fuel hose experience.



I tried Tygon F4040 fuel hose initially.  It will get hard and lose flexibility in less than a year as I recall. It is yellow initially and gets more yellow with time. 



What I have been using for the last 6-8 years is Tygon SE200.  This is clear tubing with a Teflon liner.  There has been no change in color or opacity since installed. The liner will not withstand flexing, so for protection, I slid the SE200 inside clear flexible tubing that I purchased a the local DIY store. The only place I use this is for my sight gauge.



All other fuel hoses in my Europa are Gates Barricade, which meets SAE J30R14T1 specification. This hose has very low permeation so smell is minimized. It comes in carburetor version and fuel injection version. The fuel injection hose is stiffer and more difficult to  slide on fittings but also will keep it's shape better around sharp bends. The carburetor version is softer and easier to slide on fittings but can collapse or deform around sharp bends.



I also have replaced all barb fittings in my fuel and oil system with AN style hose ends.  They are much easier to work with than the original Europa barb fittings.



Hope this helps but I have no idea if allowed in the UK.



Jim Butcher

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Jim,



Many thanks for your words of wisdom. As you're probably aware, in the UK we seem to enjoy less freedom and are subject to detailed annual permit renewal inspections. So if my inspector says "Jump!" then I reply "How high Sir?" At last year's inspection he told me that he would like me to replace the sight gauge tubing before the next inspection, preferably using the TYGON which seemingly is being used by several UK aircraft types.



I'll have to keep my fingers crossed, hoping that it lasts as long as what is currently installed and still in quite good condition after 26 years. Unfortunately the old tubing was supplied by Europa as part of the build kit, with no way now of knowing who manufactured it. The picture of what I've already ordered shows fairly clear tubing without a hint of yellow. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the package.



My other hope is that the formulation of US mogas may be a little different from the UK. For one thing, we can still buy mogas at certain fuel stations with zero ethanol in it, which is what I always use.



Jonathan

Matt Dovey

Joined: 13 May 2017
Posts: 48
Location: st albans, england

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Jonathan you could find another inspector. Thats what happens when I tell LAA members something they dont like at permit time. Especially if it involves them spending money or their aircraft maybe grounded. Safety usually comes a poor third. Not sure why after all this time your inspector is quoting MPD 1998-019 R1. Unless he's new to you. Its been around since 1998 and should be carried out every permit renewal inspection. I carry it out on any aircraft it am carrying out a Permit renewal inspection on. I inspect all flexible lines and hose for deterioration. Not just fuel lines.

I have only found out about Tygon hose in the last week. I've only ever used standard commercially available fuel hose. I change it on-condition. Because its cheap it gets changed often as needed and not every 26 years. If I was going your inspection I would suggest that to you. Unless you really want Tygon hose at £££ that is.

Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 184

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:54 am Post subject: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Is this an alternative to the Tygon Tube we are all talking about?



Alan





Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 19 Feb 2023, at 19:18, Matt Dovey <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 Jonathan you could find another inspector. Thats what happens when I tell LAA members something they dont like at permit time. Especially if it involves them spending money or their aircraft maybe grounded. Safety usually comes a poor third. Not sure why after all this time your inspector is quoting MPD 1998-019 R1. Unless he's new to you. Its been around since 1998 and should be carried out every permit renewal inspection. I carry it out on any aircraft it am carrying out a Permit renewal inspection on. I inspect all flexible lines and hose for deterioration. Not just fuel lines.

 I have only found out about Tygon hose in the last week. I've only ever used standard commercially available fuel hose. I change it on-condition. Because its cheap it gets changed often as needed and not every 26 years. If I was going your inspection I would suggest that to you. Unless you really want Tygon hose at £££ that is.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510250#510250

 

 

 

 

 

 

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Per Jim's recommendation I also used the SE-200 tubing. For those in the US it is sold by McMaster Carr as "Ultra-Chemical-Resistant Versilon PVC Tubing 1/4 ID, 3/8 OD"  PN 6519T13. The stuff is great and after 3 years it has not stained and remains crystal clear making reading the fuel level very easy. 



However, I installed my tube right against the cockpit module's seat back in the center (if someone has seen Bud Yerly's airplane, but without the fancy base). That means I did not have to bend this tube to place it in the foot well as the plans indicate. I have 1/4" aluminum tubing from the tank and vent and bent 90°s at the top and bottom of the seat back center. From there a straight run of the SE-200 against the seat back. No bends.



Jim is right, the stuff doesn't like bends because the FEP liner inside will collapse. But in a near straight line it is amazing for fuel sight gage use. Also, pushing the tube into the 1/4" tubing is hard because the liner separates and bunches up in front of the tubing. But with some patience it is doable. Certainly worth the effort.



But I don't know if you can change the location of the fuel sight gage in England. Could you use barbed fittings and use the SE-200 only on the vertical run where you read the fuel level? 



Honestly, I have no clue why Europa didn't place it against the seat back. Easy to see and fairly accurate. 



Chris

timothyferriss

Joined: 20 Jun 2023
Posts: 8
Location: USA

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

In terms of sourcing the tubing, LAS Aerospace Ltd seems to be a reputable supplier, but if your inspector Spend Elon Musk Money specifically recommends TYGON tubing, it might be worth going with their suggestion for compliance purposes.

Davidcripps

Joined: 09 Aug 2021
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:20 am Post subject: Europa Classic sight gauge tubing MPD: 1998-019 R1

Europa themselves also sell the sight gauge tubing. Not Tygon as far as I know, but a clear polyurethane. 



Mine has worked well and was easy to fit as part of the replacement of all the fuel lines. It hasn’t yellowed at all after a year. Mine already runs up the seat back between the seats. Easy to read when the fuel level is above the tunnel top but a bit harder when the level drops below that as you have to open the hatch on the tunnel and it’s quite dark in there! OK for checking fuel on the ground but not ideal once in flight.



David

G-BWJH Classic Trigear (mono conversion) 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 7 Feb 2024, at 03:20, timothyferriss <timothyferrissy(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 In terms of sourcing the tubing, LAS Aerospace Ltd seems to be a reputable supplier, but if your inspector Spend Elon Musk Money (https://spendelonmuskmoney.io) specifically recommends TYGON tubing, it might be worth going with their suggestion for compliance purposes.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513210#513210

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