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Tail plane questions

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alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:25 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?



Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?



Best regards,

Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:57 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

Alex

For what it's worth my tailplane has one side higher than the other and it flies fine.

The stab arm is sort of cushioned at the bottom.Â  Â I put a stop on the top of the ply containment thing to stop the weight hitting the fuselage top.

The plastic rings look like hdpe but i don't know for sure.

Will

William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246



On Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 17:27 Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)>

 

 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

 

 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

 

 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

barp99(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

Alex,



My bushes are yet to be fitted, so could measure them up for you if 

needed, I'm away from it for a couple of weeks but after that will have 

access.



Brian Phillips



Aus.



On 14/11/2024 9:25 am, Alex Kaarsberg wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other.

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?



 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?



 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 185

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:27 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?<<


	




I think you may be referring to Mandatory Factory Mod 70 which was issued.

Classification: Applicability: Compliance:

Introduction

This modification has been classified as mandatory by the PFA (UK). All Europas delivered before February 2005

Aircraft with serial numbers shown in the Appendix, or those which have suffered a heavy landing or ground loop - within the next 5 flying hours, or before the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

All other Europas - within the next 25 flying hours or the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

If so you need the revised part from Europa as itâ€™s a mandatory factory mod.

You can download the full mod, and others, from the Europa Club website.

Alan Burrill



 	  Quote: 	
		  

On Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 17:27 Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)>

 

 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

 

 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

 

 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:33 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

ï»¿Thanks Alan,



I am aware of this, but now it looks like there is no more any chance of getting parts from the factory, hence my question to see if another satisfactory means of compliance could be foundâ€¦?

Alex Kaarsberg



Alex Kaarsberg

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 14 Nov 2024, at 04:32, Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> wrote:



ï»¿>>Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?<<

I think you may be referring to Mandatory Factory Mod 70 which was issued.

Classification: Applicability: Compliance:

Introduction

This modification has been classified as mandatory by the PFA (UK). All Europas delivered before February 2005

Aircraft with serial numbers shown in the Appendix, or those which have suffered a heavy landing or ground loop - within the next 5 flying hours, or before the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

All other Europas - within the next 25 flying hours or the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

If so you need the revised part from Europa as itâ€™s a mandatory factory mod.

You can download the full mod, and others, from the Europa Club website.

Alan Burrill



 	  Quote: 	
		  

On Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 17:27 Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)>

 

 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

 

 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

 

 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:35 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

Hi Brian-



Thanks, yes that would be very much appreciated!!



Alex Kaarsberg



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 13 Nov 2024, at 23:14, Al <barp99(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 Alex,

 

 My bushes are yet to be fitted, so could measure them up for you if needed, I'm away from it for a couple of weeks but after that will have access.

 

 Brian Phillips

 

 Aus.

 

> On 14/11/2024 9:25 am, Alex Kaarsberg wrote:

> 

> 

> Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other.

> If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

> 

> Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

> Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

> 

> Best regards,

> Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

> 

> 

>

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 7:26 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

ï»¿Hello Alex,



My tailplane is the same.  This is typical and does not affect the flying quality or characteristics of the plane.  If I recall correctly the lower fuselage has a slight twist in it.  I would suggest leaving as is.  



If you attempt to relocate the bushings in an effort to level the torque tube you will change the alignment of the tailplane with the mating profile molded into the sides of the fuselage.   This mismatch between the fuselage and tailplane will be very noticeable.  Hence, the recommendation to leave as is. 



Regarding the modification to tailplane mass balance arm.  Again, if I recall correctly the TP18C Adjuster Body was adjusted to the extreme end of TP18B End Fitting.  This created a large bending moment at root end of TP18C resulting in its failure.  Europa issued mod 70 with a redesigned mass balance arm and constraint of the TP19 Weights.  



The failure was attributed to a number of landing mishaps.  Regardless, the original design did not adequately keep the weights from swinging side to side as there was no means to tighten or adjust the lateral restraining cables. Additionally, it was deemed that heavier tube and a stronger adjusting mechanism were warranted. 



Lastly, I noted that you have kit number 529.   Most likely your kit has the redesigned TP18 arm.  Per the documentation in Mod 70, kits up to number 194 were affected (those delivered prior to February 2005).   So, maybe this isnâ€™t an issue for you. 



Regards,



Erich Trombley

N28ET

Classic Mono 914

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:32 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

Thanks Will!!Alex Kaarsberg



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 13 Nov 2024, at 23:02, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:



ï»¿Alex

For what it's worth my tailplane has one side higher than the other and it flies fine.

The stab arm is sort of cushioned at the bottom.   I put a stop on the top of the ply containment thing to stop the weight hitting the fuselage top.

The plastic rings look like hdpe but i don't know for sure.

Will

William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246



On Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 17:27 Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)>

 

 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

 

 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

 

 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:37 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

ï»¿Thanks Alan, it appears the factory has shut down completely. Alex Kaarsberg



Alex Kaarsberg

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 14 Nov 2024, at 04:32, Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> wrote:



ï»¿>>Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?<<

I think you may be referring to Mandatory Factory Mod 70 which was issued.

Classification: Applicability: Compliance:

Introduction

This modification has been classified as mandatory by the PFA (UK). All Europas delivered before February 2005

Aircraft with serial numbers shown in the Appendix, or those which have suffered a heavy landing or ground loop - within the next 5 flying hours, or before the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

All other Europas - within the next 25 flying hours or the next annual Permit renewal, whichever is the sooner.

If so you need the revised part from Europa as itâ€™s a mandatory factory mod.

You can download the full mod, and others, from the Europa Club website.

Alan Burrill



 	  Quote: 	
		  

On Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 17:27 Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org (alex(at)kaarsberg.org)>

 

 Hello all, in the absence of the factory for parts, a kit that has been waiting to be finished for a few decades and now is in progress again, the stabilator axis has been found to have one end about 8mm higher than the other. 

 If the plastic bush needs replacing after the removal, can anyone help with material spec and dimensions to make up a new one?

 

 Also, the modification to strengthen the counterweight installation was deemed necessary due to a bent arm, I gather.

 Has it been considered if cushioning of the mass before end of travel could achieve what the beefing up of the arm sought to do?

 

 Best regards,

 Alex Kaarsberg, kit 529

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:59 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

Thanks Eric for a detailed and comprehensive reply!

I have passed on the kit to a friend, who intends to complete it and I am trying to get him started. 

This kit was delivered in 2002 and has the cables as standard, so I believe it is prÃ©-mod 70 and so the arm will need replacing. 

I do believe the slight misalignment will not result in any noticeable effect, but that will be up to the new owner to decide- your recommendation is noted and I do agree with you. 

I am not sure if I understand what you mean by saying realigning the bush will have a detrimental effect on, as it seems the bush will only move a tiny amount and into the correct position..?

As the factory is no longer responding to requests, we will have to try to make up parts for the required mods, (57, 70, 72, 73 and 74) so any info such as photos, dimensions and material specs and other info not available in the modification instructions, or help in obtaining the parts, would be immensely appreciated.



Alex Kaarsberg



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 14 Nov 2024, at 12:31, Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 ï»¿Hello Alex,

 

 My tailplane is the same.  This is typical and does not affect the flying quality or characteristics of the plane.  If I recall correctly the lower fuselage has a slight twist in it.  I would suggest leaving as is.  

 

 If you attempt to relocate the bushings in an effort to level the torque tube you will change the alignment of the tailplane with the mating profile molded into the sides of the fuselage.   This mismatch between the fuselage and tailplane will be very noticeable.  Hence, the recommendation to leave as is.

 

 Regarding the modification to tailplane mass balance arm.  Again, if I recall correctly the TP18C Adjuster Body was adjusted to the extreme end of TP18B End Fitting.  This created a large bending moment at root end of TP18C resulting in its failure.  Europa issued mod 70 with a redesigned mass balance arm and constraint of the TP19 Weights.  

 

 The failure was attributed to a number of landing mishaps.  Regardless, the original design did not adequately keep the weights from swinging side to side as there was no means to tighten or adjust the lateral restraining cables. Additionally, it was deemed that heavier tube and a stronger adjusting mechanism were warranted.

 

 Lastly, I noted that you have kit number 529.   Most likely your kit has the redesigned TP18 arm.  Per the documentation in Mod 70, kits up to number 194 were affected (those delivered prior to February 2005).   So, maybe this isnâ€™t an issue for you.

 

 Regards,

 

 Erich Trombley

 N28ET

 Classic Mono 914

Mallard

Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Ireland

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:08 am Post subject: Tail plane questions

Alex,  

Have you seen this message which is posted on the Europa Club website News page? 

  

Regards 

James 

Co. Kerry 

Ireland 

  

[img]cid:image001.png(at)01DB36C8.6F26BB50[/img] 

  

--

image001.png

Description:

Filesize:

537.24 KB

Viewed:

482 Time(s)

_________________
Seat of my pants

alex(at)kaarsberg.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:43 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

James,



You have no idea how that relieves me, I had just sold the kit when the new owner told me they seemed to have shut down. 

Having had my mind on other things for years, I have not followed up on informing myself, much appreciated!!

Alex Kaarsberg



[quote]On 14 Nov 2024, at 16:16, James <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:



ï»¿    v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->(at)font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; } (at)font-face { font-family: Calibri; } p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText { margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; } span.PlainTextChar { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; } .MsoChpDefault { } (at)page WordSection1 { size: 612pt 792pt; margin: 72pt; } div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->    

Alex,  

Have you seen this message which is posted on the Europa Club website News page? 

  

Regards 

James 

Co. Kerry 

Ireland 

  

<image001.png>

 

  

--

Mallard

Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Ireland

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:16 pm Post subject: Tail plane questions

I could feel your anxiety Alex ðŸ˜±

 

 

 

 

 Sent from  Outlook for Android

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Alex Kaarsberg <alex(at)kaarsberg.org>

 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2024 8:42:13 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Tail plane questions  

 

 James, 

 

 You have no idea how that relieves me, I had just sold the kit when the new owner told me they seemed to have shut down. 

 Having had my mind on other things for years, I have not followed up on informing myself, much appreciated!!

  Alex Kaarsberg

 

 [quote]On 14 Nov 2024, at 16:16, James <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:

 

  ï»¿       

Alex,  

Have you seen this message which is posted on the Europa Club website News page? 

  

Regards 

James 

Co. Kerry 

Ireland 

  

 <image001.png>

 

 

  

--

_________________
Seat of my pants

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