Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

cubflyr(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm reluctant to post this but feel like I need to share it in hopes it

never happens again...........  
	




Man, this was definitely in the "could have happened to me" category, from

the cockpit of BOTH aircraft. I had a T-18 homebuilt behind me. Red with

orange stripes. Ask me how I know (see below).



Now: what do we learn from this. Yes, be vigilant, but you can't see and

predict everything. Who would have thought the TBM pilot would not have been

REALLY vigilant when taxiing around with smaller airplanes everywhere (you

can't see squat from the front seat of a TBM). The RV pilot should have been

vigilant as to where the huge aircraft behind him was (you can see squat

from an RV, however). NOT to place blame on ANYONE; you just can't see

everything all the time. S-turning helps you see most everything, but

obviously, not everything. Spacing while taxiing can be variable at any

airport. Some who saw this happen said there were three RV's in a row and

the TBM pilot may have lost count of how many there were. Who knows; I was

not there. 



Lord knows I have had some stupid close calls while taxiing. (Young stud J-3

pilot, pulls up in front of the open hanger and powers the tail around only

to slam the wingtip into the hanger door frame. Still have the piece with

the two shallow grooves in it to remind myself what a hotshot I was.)



I have a mirror for seeing behind me and use it every time I fly. I use it

to check rudder movement on preflight control check, check passengers to see

how much they are enjoying the flight, check six for aircraft, both in the

air and on the ground, especially when I do a mag check. Nothing like

blasting the airplanes behind you because you didn't look. When I was in

line yesterday at OSH, I was looking in the mirror to see six traffic. That

was the T-18. I also used it as I departed to make sure someone wasn't

running up my tail. Should it be standard equipment? No; it's just my

preference. One mirror would not work as well in a -6/7 as there is another

side of the airplane you can't see behind. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  I hope the folks at EAA make it standard policy from now on to have

spotters >available to help out any tail dragger pilot who needs a second
	


set of eyes for> taxiing. 



Being one of those EAA folks that "works the line", I can comment on that.

There is not the personnel available to "spot" every large airplane that

gets in the mix with smaller airplanes on an 8,000 foot-long taxiway.

Especially on the last day, a lot of those volunteers (me) are in their

airplanes leaving, too. But even when the convention is in full tilt boogie,

there aren't enough people; impossible task. We try to see events like the

above before they get to the destructive phase, but you just can't see

everything. You would be amazed how many "events" we do stop at an early

phase. Example: this year, I only saw two aircraft attempting to land on the

(very active) taxi way. Both diverted and used the runway, thanks to some

sharp-eyed tower controllers. The fewest attempts in years. And no actually

landings on the taxi way, either. Maybe a first. You can't fly the airplane

for them, and you can't taxi it for them. When you get 10-13,000 airplanes

in the same area all at the same time, things can happen. As EAA volunteers,

we do everything we can to help avoid situations as happened Sunday. But you

can't see and intervene in all of them. Ah, that we could. 



Another note: I was appalled this year at the radio chatter as I sat in the

departure line between storms yesterday at OSH, a wait of about 20 minutes.

There was PLENTY mouthy chatter (way too much; any mouthy chatter at ALL is

too much) with people complaining to the controllers (why them?) on the

TOWER FREQUENCY about the A-10 departure delay, the AeroShell T-6 departure

delay, sitting in line too long and cylinder head temperatures, threatening

to shut down on the runway to just prove to someone how unhappy he was, etc.

You get the occasional quip on the tower frequency but yesterday was a study

in anger, meanness, immaturity, and "all about ME"-ness. It was NOT the

controllers that scheduled the A-10 departure while we were waiting in line

in the rain. It wasn't the EAA that scheduled the rain while we were waiting

in line for the A-10s. So who do you blame? Why didn't the complainers leave

Saturday when the weather was better? Maybe it was the complainers fault for

not planning ahead. I have taxied at OSH for 45 minutes, including a change

in runways that took forever for everyone to line up again. Even with that

there was little complaining. Yesterday, with a VICIOUS storm having just

moved through and who-knows-what-else about to descend on us again, tempers

were short. Getting in a hurry, being angry and frustrated are not conducive

to intelligent decisions while flying (or taxiing). This is NOT to say this

was a contributing factor in the accident, just an observation of our

increasingly angry world. Too bad aviation can't be exempt from such.



I am sad for the pilot of the TBM, the people who had to witness that event,

the pilot next to his passenger that died and the passenger. It reinforces

that all we have is now and not much else and something totally

unpredictable can sneak up and     bite you when you least expect it. A good

friend of mine died in his -4 when another airplane landed on his as he

landed at a TOWER-CONTROLLED AIRPORT. Yikes. The closest encounter I had

yesterday was 20 miles from my home field in Colorado (flying home from OSH)

when a CAP C-182 passed overhead from my 8 o'clock, but 100 feet higher.

Would I have seen him if he wasn't just a little higher? I don't know. It

would have been a collision course. He didn't see me, even when I rocked my

wings. It was an eye-opener. 



Stay safe; keep looking, including in the rear-view mirror.   



Michael

N232 Suzie Q

Great time at OSH; good to be home. Dryer, anyway.......

\

Do not archive

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Having seen almost the same scenario played out at Reno a number of years

ago, with a Sea Fury taxiing up the back end of a Lancair, I can see how it

happens.  It's a large plane, with (I would guess) a high workload during

taxi and run-up.  Losing track of just how many small planes are in front

of you would be very easy.  In the incident I witnessed, the Lancair was

pushed ahead enough by the impact that by the time the Sea Fury shut down

he was still a foot from the cockpit.  But the Lancair was still running,

and as I recall it taxiied itself further ahead before shutting down to get

out and inspect the damage.



Still, my condolences to all involved, if anyone here knows any of them. 

As someone pointed out, it was a relatively incident-free year at Oshkosh

this year, it's unfortunate that this had to be one of the incidents.



-Rob

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

I'm a bit confused.... was the accident RV and RV-6 (side-by-side) or was it an RV-8 (tandem)?  I can understand the passenger being killed in an RV-8 while the pilot up-front survives, but I for life of me don't understand how the pilot would have been able to survive in an RV-6!  

I've read lots about this accident.  Some report it as an RV-8... others and RV-6.  Which is it?   

Jack

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Jack,



I think the initial (logical) speculation was that if it was an RV it would have had to have been a tandem model. I think the more "official" word is RV6.



I was not there but imagine that the first strike spins the tail a bit left for somewhat of a right turn of the plane. That would put the person on the left a bit more forward of the plane of the prop. This is pure speculation of the geometry of things on my part. I have NO data to back this view up. 



James

p.s. How is "beautiful paint scheme" holding up??    

On 8/1/06, Lockamy, Jack L < jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil (jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		            

I'm a bit confused.... was the accident RV and RV-6 (side-by-side) or was it an RV-8 (tandem)?  I can understand the passenger being killed in an RV-8 while the pilot up-front survives, but I for life of me don't understand how the pilot would have been able to survive in an RV-6!   

I've read lots about this accident.  Some report it as an RV-8... others and RV-6.  Which is it?   

Jack   

  

	


-- 

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

On 8:55:42 2006-08-01 "Lockamy, Jack L" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm a bit confused.... was the accident RV and RV-6 (side-by-side) or

 was it an RV-8 (tandem)?  I can understand the passenger being killed

 in an RV-8 while the pilot up-front survives, but I for life of me

 don't understand how the pilot would have been able to survive in an

 RV-6!


	


Assuming the propellor rotates clockwise (from the pilot's perspective) on

a TBM, I would expect multiple hits on the rear fuselage of an RV-6 would

cause the RV to rotate clockwise (viewed from above), regardless of what

the pilot was doing with the brakes.  There's a lot of momentum in that big

a propellor.



Or, maybe the TBM was rolling on a path slightly to the right of the path

of the RV, and only cut into the right-hand side of the fuselage.



In any case, the plane has been officially confirmed to be an RV-6. 

C-FNQP, Registered to Bill Reed of Carp, Ontario.



-Rob

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Hi All,

  

 if there's sufficient forward motion and the space0 between two blades on the prop is big enough I can see one blade hitting and the0 next one coming out slighlty forward(but terribly close) to next0 occupant.

  

 I would guess from what I have seen in the posts on0 this subject that there was considerable forward speed with the TBM, for (I0 guess) the TBM would have stopped before hitting the cabin. If the TBM didn't0 see the RV at all he might have concluded there was quite a gap between himself0 and the a/c in front of the RV and opened the throttle somewhat to close the0 gap.

  

 Marcel

  

 do not archive.

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

Morocketman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH and other OSH stuff

Sorry to report that as of August 2nd, I heard that the FAA is reporting that the pilot of the RV-6 was very seriously injured.

 Les

 do not archive

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum