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doors off?

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evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: doors off?

Does anybody know if it is ok to take the doors off0 of my Cessna 150? I know its ok on the 172 because they have removable pins in0 the door hinges...my 150 does not. I apologize for the non RV question, but0 I figured one of you high time pilots out there could probably answer this. Its0 a 1976, and NOT an aerobat...just the regular one.

 Thanks in advance...

 do not archive

 Evan

DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: doors off?

Evan, I may be wrong, but I think you have to have FSDO approval to remove0 the door for flight. Someone that carries skydivers or does aerial photography0 may be of help.

 Good luck.

 Doug P.

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: doors off?

On 8:47:08 2006-08-03 "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Does anybody know if it is ok to take the doors off of my Cessna 150?

 I know its ok on the 172 because they have removable pins in the door

 hinges...my 150 does not. I apologize for the non RV question, but I

 figured one of you high time pilots out there could probably answer

 this. Its a 1976, and NOT an aerobat...just the regular one. Thanks

 in advance... do not archive


	


The doors on a Cessna 150 are not structural, so if you can handle the

breeze you can fly without them just fine.  For what it's worth, i've flown

in an Aerobat without the doors (intentionally), and while it's windy, it

flies just fine.



If you're looking to take pictures, you may find it easier to just remove

the window from the door.  That would give you enough opening for pictures,

and still provide some wind protection inside the cockpit.  It'll depend on

what kind of hinge mechanism is on the window though... It may be easier to

just unscrew the door hinges.



-Rob

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: doors off?

On 3 Aug 2006, at 12:12, DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com (DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    Evan, I may be wrong, but I think you have to have FSDO approval to remove the door for flight. Someone that carries skydivers or does aerial photography may be of help.

 	




Removing the door(s) will almost certainly affect the performance and handling, so even if you manage to get approval, apply all the normal precautions that you would for a flight in an aircraft with unknown performance and handling.  I.e. the initial flights are test flights, which should have a planned list of tests, no passengers, and the test points should gradually build up to the end points of the desired weight/CG/manoeuvre envelope.



 Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: doors off?

On 3 Aug 2006, at 12:12, DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    Evan, I may be wrong, but I think you have to have FSDO approval

  to remove the door for flight. Someone that carries skydivers or

  does aerial photography may be of help.


	


FAA AC 105-2C Covers requirements for operating an aircraft with one door

removed for the purposes of dropping Skydivers.  In Appendix 2 it lists the

"Cessna 150 Series" as one of the types with blanket approval for operation

in this manner.



I would *expect* that this approval would mean that it's safe (as far as

the FAA is concerned) to fly the airplane around in this configuration, but

you never know when it comes to the FAA...



There's a PDF of AC105-2C on the FAA website, but it appears to be

corrupted (at least, Acrobat 7 wouldn't open it on my computer).  I did

find an html version here:



   http://www.brookfieldstore.com/aviationlinks/AC105-2c.htm



Hope this helps!



-Rob

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: doors off?

In a message dated 08/03/2006 1:11:25 PM Central Daylight Time, rv7(at)b4.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  FAA AC 105-2C Covers requirements for operating an aircraft with one door

removed for the purposes of dropping Skydivers.  In Appendix 2 it lists the

"Cessna 150 Series" as one of the types with blanket approval for operation

in this manner. 	


 >>>

  

 Most interesting- note the plural form "Skydivers" cited- Behold the Mighty 150!!!!

  

 

  

 Mark - do not archive

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: doors off?

On 16:05:31 2006-08-03 Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Most interesting- note the plural form "Skydivers" cited- Behold the

 Mighty 150!!!!


	


Sure... The 150 did have a child seat as an option.  If you want to throw

your spouse and child out of your 150, it's perfectly legal.



But you have to give them parachutes.  



-Rob

evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: doors off?

Thanks for the advise guys, I knew I could count on you for the facts. I am

just looking to get the windy ultralight experience without spending a bunch

of cash on a new toy. I figured I could try doors off a couple of times and

get it out of my system....then get back to the real challenge of building

an RV 10.

Cheers..

Evan Johnson

www.evansaviationproducts.com

(530)247-0375

(530)351-1776 cell

---

Bob Perkinson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: doors off?

I do know that if you open both doors at the same time on a 150 with the

flaps down you go down a whole lot faster than normal.  You can fall out of

the sky almost straight down, no forward air speed flat as a pancake.  I

know.



Bob Perkinson

Hendersonville, TN.

RV9 N658RP Reserved

If nothing changes

Nothing changes


<evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>



Thanks for the advise guys, I knew I could count on you for the facts. I am

just looking to get the windy ultralight experience without spending a bunch

of cash on a new toy. I figured I could try doors off a couple of times and

get it out of my system....then get back to the real challenge of building

an RV 10.

Cheers..

Evan Johnson

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: doors off?

In a message dated 8/7/2006 9:25:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,0 bobperk(at)bellsouth.net writes:

 do know0   that if you open both doors at the same time on a 150 with the

flaps down0   you go down a whole lot faster than normal.  You can fall out of

the0   sky almost straight down, no forward air speed flat as a pancake. 0   I

know.

[/quote]

 

 Alright, I'll bite.

  

 How do you know this?  Details?0  

 Regards,



Michael Wynn

RV-8, Wings

San Ramon,0 California



Do Not Archive

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: doors off?

I would think you can't take the doors doors off your 172 without an STC to do so.... at least that's the way it is for the Cessna 140. There is an STC (a friend of mine has it) that allows ONE door to be off of a 140. It's a paperwork-only sort of STC -but the fact that only one door is allowed off at a time kinda' leads one to believe that the plane won't fly very well with both off. My buddy says that his 140 is very windy and doggy on the performance with a door off -and the interior trim tries very hard to leave the plane...  

   

  Scott

  N4ZW

  CFII A&P ATP

Bob Perkinson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: doors off?

No biting to it if you pull the power back,0 put full flaps down and force both doors open (works better if there are0 two people in the plane,  the plane will literally fall flat out of0 the sky. Air speed will drop drastically( may be because the static system0 reference is screwed up because the doors are forced open) VSI falls out the0 bottom and altimeter will verify this.  Just make sure that you keep plenty0 for forward pressure on the yoke, and give yourself plenty of altitude to0 recover.    You can also set up turns by using the doors at cruse0 speed, although at slower speeds the airplane will exhibits sever adverse0 yaw.  When your young and foolish and have an airplane at your disposal and0 extra time, you tend to push the envelop a little.  Shortest take off and0 landing contest were just about an every day event,  Open doors will help0 slow down a plane that is on the ground..Never did any damage to the plane0 tko.

 

Bob Perkinson

Hendersonville, TN.

RV9 N658RP Reserved

If nothing0 changes

Nothing changes

 



 [quote]   --

evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: doors off?

Yipes!....this is not the experience I was hoping for. I think I had better0 leave them on and see if I can find an ultralight to beg borrow or steal.

 Thanks for the advise..

 Evan

 [quote]   ---

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: doors off?

Remember that what  Bob describes is very different from flying with the 

doors *off*. Only a minimal relationship to what you were wanting to do.



Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:



[quote] Yipes!....this is not the experience I was hoping for. I think I had 

 better leave them on and see if I can find an ultralight to beg borrow 

 or steal.

 Thanks for the advise..

 Evan



     ---

Bob Perkinson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: doors off?

Right Charlie.  we were putting a lot of drag on the plane, and taking a lot

of air out from under the wing.  I have flown with the doors off a Taylor

Craft BL 65 Lots of drag and about 10 mph slower, don't remember if it

effected the stall speed.



Bob Perkinson

Hendersonville, TN.

RV9 N658RP Reserved

If nothing changes

Nothing changes





--

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