Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Kitfox Crash
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

CNN has just announced (9:06am) that a SkyStar Vixen has just crashed on a 

golf course 30 miles south of Atlanta killing the pilot. No other persons on 

board. CNN showed pictures of the scene.



DO NOT ARCHIVE

kitfox.cooler(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

here is the link



http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid2105243&qs=1;bp=t



__________________________________________________

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



here is the link



http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid2105243&qs=1;bp=t


	


Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought only Lancair's did 

that. >:-}

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident

summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about

300 reports.  In all of that there were only 4 deaths

in 2 of the 300 accidents.  Both were from steep

takeoff stalls.  I gathered that the kitFox was a very

survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on

takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.

Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo

--- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:

 >

 <kitfox.cooler(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 >here is the link

 >

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid2105243&qs=1;bp=t

 Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought

 only Lancair's did 

 that. >:-}

 Guy Buchanan

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly

 to Bob Ducar.

 Do not archive

__________________________________________________

sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

If that is the only fatalities involved then it would be prudent 

to install an angle of attack and that problem should go away.



Randy



---

jdisher(at)intergate.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Are they sure it was a stall spin? I have a IV Speedster and its a hard 

plane to

keep in a stalled condition. It just mushes down till it gets a little speed

back, and if you insist on holding the stick back it will do it again, but no

wild break and pitch like my Bonanza. The photos look like he flew it straight

down cause its all in a pile. From the limited info of the pictures I also

wondered if the lift strut on the left wing didn't separate and let it just

stream down.

I always figured that it the structure held together I could put it down

anywhere. A large roof-top, a tree, somebodies back yard, a subdivision 

street.

Somewhere. How bad can you get beat up at 35 mph if you're the least bit

attentive. Don't worry about the fox at that point, she belongs to the

insurance company. It's time to sya.

Quoting kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>:

 	  Quote: 	

 <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

 Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident

 summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about

 300 reports.  In all of that there were only 4 deaths

 in 2 of the 300 accidents.  Both were from steep

 takeoff stalls.  I gathered that the kitFox was a very

 survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on

 takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.

 Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo

 --- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:

> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:

> >

> <kitfox.cooler(at)yahoo.com>

> >

> >here is the link

> >

>

> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9621436/detail.html?subid2105243&qs=1;bp=t

>

> Wow. A departure stall/spin in a Kitfox. I thought

> only Lancair's did

> that. >:-}

> Guy Buchanan

> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly

> to Bob Ducar.

>

> Do not archive

 __________________________________________________

----------------------------------------------------------------

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

If you want to find out about take off accidents.  Go to altitude, set up a steep take off climb, pull back the power (don't touch any thing and see what happens) I think you might be suprised. 

  

If you lose power on take off with a steep deck angle and turn back to the airport before letting the nose of the airplane drop below the horiz,. you  most likely  will spin.  take some spin training, I taught them even though it wasn't required. 

  

Clint



 

  	  Quote:

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Good advice for whatever airplane one might be driving, Kurt.

   

  do not archive



kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader 



Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident

summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about

300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths

in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep

takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very

survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on

takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.



Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo



--- Guy Buchanan wrote:



[quote] At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you wrote:

 >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rick Cooler

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Latest report suggests pilot (an airline retiree) lost power on climb-out and tried to turn 180 degrees to the runway he'd just left. 

  

jdisher(at)intergate.com wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jdisher(at)intergate.com



Are they sure it was a stall spin? I have a IV Speedster and its a hard 

plane to

keep in a stalled condition. It just mushes down till it gets a little speed

back, and if you insist on holding the stick back it will do it again, but no

wild break and pitch like my Bonanza. The photos look like he flew it straight

down cause its all in a pile. From the limited info of the pictures I also

wondered if the lift strut on the left wing didn't separate and let it just

stream down.



I always figured that it the structure held together I could put it down

anywhere. A large roof-top, a  tree, somebodies back yard, a subdivision 

street.

Somewhere. How bad can you get beat up at 35 mph if you're the least bit

attentive. Don't worry about the fox at that point, she belongs to the

insurance company. It's time to sya.



Quoting kurt schrader :



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader 

 



 Before I decided to build my Fox I got the accident

 summary on kitFox's from the EAA and went thru about

 300 reports. In all of that there were only 4 deaths

 in 2 of the 300 accidents. Both were from steep

 takeoff stalls. I gathered that the kitFox was a very

 survival plane, if one just doesn't try to show off on

 takeoff and is prepared for engine failure.



 Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo



 --- Guy Buchanan wrote:



> At 12:21 PM 8/3/2006, you

jdisher(at)intergate.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

That's why we have always been told to go straight ahead and find a soft spot if you atren't up to a specific altitude. I have lost power on takeoff twice, although not completely, that is if that 4 banger with two cylinders shut Dow can still put out anything, but I was at about 200 to 250 feet which gives you lots of time in a lightly loaded Fox. I was able to maintain about 45mph and do a very slow easy turn back and still had about half of the runway left. On the second one I must have looked a little ruffled, because a spectator asked my if I carried toilet paper in the plane.

  

 [i]----

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Marco's post reminds me of a post I recently sent to the Lancair list. 

There has been a long thread having to with aircraft accident stastics. 

Something about how to measure them - flight hour or passenger miles.  The 

argument involved whether general aviation is more or less safe and by how 

much, than the scheduled air carriers and if so why.  Lots of talk about 

concern for passengers keeping ones mind on business etc. skill level, 

training and, of course, a lot of posturing, pontificating and axe grinding.



Anyway my comment had to do with my airman physical that I took Tuesday and 

a conversation I had with another pilot there for the same reason - but his 

was a Class I while mine was the class III.  I found we lived in neighboring 

towns and I asked him if he had an airplane.  He said no and went further to 

say that he would not fly in a general aviation airplane.  Then he 

volunteered that his company - US Air, to his knowledge, loses about 3 

pilots a year to general aviation accidents.



Now if this is a valid number and given US Air's published pilot population 

of 3228, they lose just under one pilot per thousand per year.  I guess the 

way I read this, assuming my new friend's numbers are somewhat accurate, it 

can be concluded that there is a problem here.



Lowell

---

eccles(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an

emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back

especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed

either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but

it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never

been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be

but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,

I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with

respect,    just my two cents

--

runwayrex(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore. Skystar (Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's just called a Kitfox now. 



-- "eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles(at)chartermi.net>



well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an

emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back

especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed

either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but

it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never

been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be

but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,

I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with

respect,    just my two cents

--

eccles(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

sorry0 

 [quote]   --

eccles(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

When I0 bought my series V the company was owned by Phil Reed and they did everything0 that they could to make sure that i was completely satisfied with my aircraft ,0 I really don't know what happened when Downs took over but i will support the0 new owners if there is ever anything I need.

  

 

[eccles] 

  -----Original0 Message-----

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of0 Rexster

Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:58 PM

To:0 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Kitfox  Crash

 [quote]..............One small thing. It's not a Skystar Kitfox anymore.0   Skystar (Skyscam) is bankrupt and left many Kitfox pilots/owners in debt. It's0   just called a Kitfox now.0   



-- "eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" <eccles(at)chartermi.net>



well if I remember my flight training correctly, they say if you have an

emergency on take off to fly straight ahead and Never try to turn back

especially when you don't have any altitude or in this case any airspeed

either .and it sounds like he had neither. it still wont bring him back but

it is something for the rest of us to try and remember. I myself have never

been in this situation except in training and I hope that i never will be

but just the same, You need to be very aware of what you can and cannot do,

I feel that the skystar Kitfox is a very safe aircraft if flown with

respect,    just my two cents

--

flier(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Personally I took a buddy up with me to a couple0 thousand feet and practiced engine out turn-arounds.  Power on, pull it0 into a steep climb till it slows to best climb, hand off the throttle, and had0 him pull the power abruptly.  Then he noted how much altitude it took0 me to do a 180.  I know if I'm at least 500ft I'm safe to do a 180 at0 nearly gross in a IV...

  

 Regards,

  

 Ted

 [quote]   --

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

I have left a few comments about slips etc.  About the Vixon crash.  The Kitfox is an airplane that can and does climb at a steep deck angle.  It is very important in your training to go to altitude and do a fairly steep climb and then cut the engine and not touch to controls and watch what the airplane does.  It tries hard to save your life if you let it.  My model IV climbs like a home sick angle, high deck angle.  When I cut the power and not touch the controls it noses over like its trying to do an outside loop.  If you wait until the nose is below the horiz before trying to turn you will probably be ok.  Steep turns are ok, just allow enough time to break the vertical decent for landing.  Fly the airplane.  Go up and keep doing this until you feel ok about it.  It may some day save your life.  The nice features about a Kitfox can kill you.  

  

 X flight instructor   Clint

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Hey Rexter,



Are you saying the kit I ordered from Dan Denney and that was delivered by 

Skystar has had a name change?  I think since Skystar delivered the kit, 

I'll still call it a Skystar Kitfox Model IV.



Thanks,



Lowell



Do Not Archive

---

donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

I have to agree with Lowell. The name of the plane remains, even if the

company is out of business. I once owned a DeSoto Powermaster. Since then

Chrysler took over the line, but if you see one on the street, it is still

called a DeSoto. 



So I think it is still a Skystar Vixen.



Don Pearsall

--

runwayrex(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: Kitfox Crash

Lowell, 

  Oh, I don't know the details of that. I ordered from Dan Denney too and it was called Denny Aerocraft, I think. The McBeans could give you the official answer to your question, but to most of us, "Skystar" is not something we want to associate with. MANY people paid for parts (including complete engines) and they never received them from Skystar. Lots of empty promises over the last few years as they were going bankrupt. I believe the company is now called Kitfox LLC, but check with John and Debra for sure. From what I saw and heard at Oshkosh, the company is headed in the right direction. Everybody I spoke with seemed impressed and happy with them. I hope they do well and I intend to buy a model 7 within two years. I'll build that and then sell my model 3. 

Cheers, 

Rex Phelps in Michigan 

  



-- "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



Hey Rexter,



Are you saying the kit I ordered from Dan Denney and that was delivered by 

Skystar has had a name change?  I think since Skystar delivered the kit, 

I'll still call it a Skystar Kitfox Model IV.



Thanks,



Lowell



Do Not Archive

---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum