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Broken Fox

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spudnuts

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: Broken Fox

I am thinking of buying a used series V that was ground looped (it ended up inverted on a grass strip).  The tail was crunched a little, the prop was broken and some fabric torn, but the repairs look pretty good from the pictures (I have not seen it in person yet).  It has a fresh annual (july) I am planning on making a visit soon, any particular things I should look for? I know thats a really broad question, but any help is appreciated.

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: Broken Fox

Yup, look for bent and dented spars, particularly the rear. It's a time 

consuming repair.

---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Broken Fox

I would do a by-the-book rigging check on it before

purchase.  That would help tell you if anything was

bent that wasn't obvious.



Kurt S.



--- spudnuts <martan(at)cstone.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am thinking of buying a used series V that was

 ground looped (it ended up inverted on a grass

 strip).  The tail was crunched a little, the prop

 was broken and some fabric torn, but the repairs

 look pretty good from the pictures (I have not seen

 it in person yet).  It has a fresh annual (july) I

 am planning on making a visit soon, any particular

 things I should look for? I know thats a really

 broad question, but any help is appreciated.


	


__________________________________________________

spudnuts

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Broken Fox

Forgive my obvious ignorance, but what is a 'by the book' rigging check? Where do I get this book?

pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: Broken Fox

Look at the matrix of tubing in front of the seat for bending. Talk to the 

pilot who dinged it. There is a big difference between letting it get away 

from you a little and stomping on the brakes rather than a hard landing out 

of control. Find out if there was a "sudden stoppage" on the engine. Good 

luck! Sounds like a good project. Jeff Classic IV

---

spaghettiohead(at)hotmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Broken Fox

It wouldn't happen to have been ground-looped sometimes last year in 

Florida, would it?



Andrew



do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "spudnuts" <martan(at)cstone.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Broken Fox

Date: Mon,  7 Aug 2006 06:32:08 -0700






I am thinking of buying a used series V that was ground looped (it ended up 

inverted on a grass strip).  The tail was crunched a little, the prop was 

broken and some fabric torn, but the repairs look pretty good from the 

pictures (I have not seen it in person yet).  It has a fresh annual (july) 

I am planning on making a visit soon, any particular things I should look 

for? I know thats a really broad question, but any help is appreciated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53031#53031


	


_________________________________________________________________

toolowterrain(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Broken Fox

Yes it was one and the same... N704LS...  I was the builder but not the guy 

that crashed it.   I had sold it the day prior!

It wasn't a ground loop but a landing in mud followed by a nose over with a 

prop strike.  Ended up inverted.   Poor judgment on the pilot's part for 

landing on a muddy grass strip.



 It was just up recently on eBay but didn't sell.



Len Shorethose



do not archive

---

spaghettiohead(at)hotmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: Broken Fox

Yep - I know the err...pilot. We had been looking at Fox's at about the same 

time when I found mine here and he found his down in Texas (you!) and told 

me he was going to fly it to Sun N Fun...He sent me the picture the day it 

happened and after calling me - I could not believe it!!



First, he punched in bad coordinates and relied solely on his GPS, and then 

he saw this field w/mud in the middle-third and then he landed not short, 

not long, but right into the mud and flipped her end over end!! He's a nice 

guy, I've flown into his strip a few times now (he has a Super Cub now), but 

poor, poor judgement on his part!



Oh well...There are those that learn the hard way 



Andrew



do not archive

[quote]From: "Len Shorethose" <toolowterrain(at)gmail.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Broken Fox

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:28:16 -0500




<toolowterrain(at)gmail.com>



Yes it was one and the same... N704LS...  I was the builder but not the guy 

that crashed it.   I had sold it the day prior!

It wasn't a ground loop but a landing in mud followed by a nose over with a 

prop strike.  Ended up inverted.   Poor judgment on the pilot's part for 

landing on a muddy grass strip.



It was just up recently on eBay but didn't sell.



Len Shorethose



do not archive

---

spudnuts

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Fox

Yeah, that plane is getting famous now isn't it ? ha.  I am going to take a long drive and go look at it this weekend. Probably too good to be true. I don't know if thats so or if the owner just wants to get rid of it. It still has a few things wrong, cosmetic so he says, only one way to find out I guess.  Len gave me some great info, talked to Cliff too (the guy that flipped it), but I figure only a hands on will tell me what I need to know.  Like I said, any suggestions on what to look for appreciated.  Here is the infamous pic of it:

http://www.eaa1257.org/cliff.jpg

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: Broken Fox

I see some worry points in the picture:



Bent left lift and jury struts means some possible

wing damage.



An awful lot of up elevator would seem to indicate

broken flight control linkage.



Of course there is the stuff you all expected with the

engine/prop damage.  But I just thought whoever gets

it should look closely for hidden damage.



Kurt S.



--- spudnuts <martan(at)cstone.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Yeah, that plane is getting famous now isn't it ?

 ha.  I am going to take a long drive and go look at

 it this weekend. Probably too good to be true. I

 don't know if thats so or if the owner just wants to

 get rid of it. It still has a few things wrong,

 cosmetic so he says, only one way to find out I

 guess.  Len gave me some great info, talked to Cliff

 too (the guy that flipped it), but I figure only a

 hands on will tell me what I need to know.  Like I

 said, any suggestions on what to look for

 appreciated.  Here is the infamous pic of it:

 http://www.eaa1257.org/cliff.jpg

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53189#53189
	


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__________________________________________________

pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Broken Fox

I hope that is the wash out I see on the right wing. The support struts 

appear to be intact. I assume you remove the wings before you flip it? Good 

luck! Jeff Classic IV

---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: Broken Fox

I meant by the builder's manual.  The distance from

the (undamaged) tailpost to each wing tip should be

equal, the wing washout measured on a leveled plane,

the dihedrial, sweep, etc.  If anything hidden got

bent, you might find it this way.



Kurt S.



--- spudnuts <martan(at)cstone.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Forgive my obvious ignorance, but what is a 'by the

 book' rigging check?  Where do I get this book?


	


__________________________________________________

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: Broken Fox

Looking at the Pic it appears the right wing strut was flexed if not bent in 

the incident judging by the condition of the fairing material and the jury 

strut, I would ask if it was replaced or just straightened, If straightened 

I would strongly consider replacing it (hard to know what they look like 

under the fairing material). You will want to inspect the heim joints at the 

outboard end of all the wing strut attach points for bending / stress. I 

would be looking for dented or kinked tubing anywhere on the fuselage 

especially where the tail section intersects the fuselage lattice, and the 

top and bottom where the main longeron stringers intersect the large cluster 

weld at the base of the baggage compartment area. The aft vertical tube in 

the vertical fin is square tube and kinks very easily compared to round 

tube, seeing it landed on it's tail I would be looking. Ask to remove the 

seat, inspection panels, baggage bag, wing tips or anything else that will 

afford you a good look inside the fabric. Take an eyeball down the aft 

fuselage longerons, they should have a nice symmetrical bow in 2 directions 

on the bottoms and in one on the tops, either way they should be symmetrical 

and even from side to side, if not I would look a little deeper. Also be 

looking at the motor mount and the tubing inboard of the firewall in that 

area. All can be fixed but it takes time & money, I am rebuilding a 5 that 

was ground looped, I will have 1 year into it this fall. Good luck

Lloyd

---

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