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Kitfox-Fuel Flow
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algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Good morning  

   

I flew a short cross country on the weekend from Barrie to the UPAC (Ultra Light Pilots Association Canada) convention near Waterloo (approx 100 miles).  

   

My new acquisition performed great  but I noticed that the pilot side tank drained at almost twice the rate of the Passenger side. I have heard stories that if you fly un-coordinated this can happen but I was definitely flying straight and true.  

   

When I landed I checked the fuel flow from the tank into the header but it was excellent (I have a large puddle to prove it).  

   

I have no valves in the system other than the main fuel shut off under the panel  and although I’m sure that both tanks would eventually drain I really don’t understand the variation. I have a low fuel warning mounted on my header so I will do some circuits to see if the  tank drains completely before the other one starts to flow.  

   

Do I have a problem or is it normal to see unequal fuel flow?  

   

Regards  

   

Gary Algate  

Model 4 / Jab2200  

   

   

        [quote][b]

shanesather(at)netkaster.
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Gary I notice the same difference on my Light 2  also but not to the same extent. The pilot side always goes lower first. This  has been noted by many others too and I don't recall that there was any real  solution for this

  

 Shane. 

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Gary,

     That is a problem (or not) that  has been discussed many times.   One thing that I have never seen is  someone saying that one tank was "completely" drained while the other still had  lots of fuel.  That would make things real interesting.  I have a  feeling that this would never happen.  At some point, the full tank has to  start feeding the header more than the empty one?????? unless of course, one  tank has a blockage.

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Don, 

  

 This is why it good to have a fuel selector so that  you can on start up run off right tank and run up off left tank and take off on  "both"  But with a header tank that would not work as the run up and start  up might not consume the capacity of the header tank.   

 I have a dash tank and indivdual shut offs on each  wing tank and a clear fuel filter inline before the dash tank so I can actually  see the fuel transfering.

  

 Personally I would rather have shut offs to isolate  each tank. One reason is if you had a cap come loose in flight and the tank  siphoned dry  then you would have one tank remaining. If you did not have  this I think it would be possible to have both tanks drained and down you go.  

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Thanks Don and Shane,  

   

I think that you are both probably right and I am probably chasing red herrings. As I am new to this plane I am probably just being over critical. I knew my last Kitfox inside out and trusted it implicitly – I guess I am just going to have to build up the same confidence level with this one.  

   

Another question – I found an adjustment for my VSI but not for the altimeter – is there a user friendly way to adjust these or is it an instrument technician job. My altimeter reads almost 600ft out !  

   

   

Regards  

   

Gary Algate  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane  Sather

 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:51 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: Kitfox-Fuel Flow  

  

     

Gary I notice the same difference on my Light 2 also but not to the same extent. The pilot side always goes lower first. This has been noted by many others too and I don't recall that there was any real solution for this  

    

   

    

Shane.   

  [quote]    

---

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Unless  you fly perfectly level, do the same amount of turns in each direction,   and are able to shut off at least one tank from the other while parked you  risk crossover. 

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Gary I have taken apart Altimeters and moved the  barometric pressure gear one or two notches to adjust it to more accuarte  setting. 

  

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Sometimes it is just a difference in tank pressure

caused by a leaking cap gasket.  The one that leaks

feeds slower.  Mine leaked a lot once on a x-country

and one tank drained to 2.5 gal before the4 other

started feeding.  I swapped caps and it went the other

way.  Easy way to check - just swap caps.



Kurt S.  S-5



--- Algate <algate(at)attglobal.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Good morning



 I flew a short cross country on the weekend from

 Barrie to the UPAC (Ultra

 Light Pilots Association Canada) convention near

 Waterloo (approx 100

 miles).

 

  

 

 My new acquisition performed great  but I noticed

 that the pilot side tank

 drained at almost twice the rate of the Passenger

 side. I have heard stories

 that if you fly un-coordinated this can happen but I

 was definitely flying

 straight and true.

 

  

 

 When I landed I checked the fuel flow from the tank

 into the header but it

 was excellent (I have a large puddle to prove it).

 

  

 

 I have no valves in the system other than the main

 fuel shut off under the

 panel  and although I'm sure that both tanks would

 eventually drain I really

 don't understand the variation. I have a low fuel

 warning mounted on my

 header so I will do some circuits to see if the 

 tank drains completely

 before the other one starts to flow.

 

  

 

 Do I have a problem or is it normal to see unequal

 fuel flow?

 

  

 

 Regards

 

  

 

 Gary Algate

 

 Model 4 / Jab2200


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

There should be a little screw next to the knob.  When

you loosen the screw, the knob should pull out and

allow you to turn only the window and not the

altitude, or the other way around - I forget which. 

After you get the 2 in sink, push the knob back in

being careful to reengage the gears and tighten the

screw.  Mine was fussy about it, but I got it done.



Kurt S.



--- Dave <dave(at)cfisher.com> wrote:



[quote] Gary I have taken apart Altimeters and moved the

 barometric pressure gear one or two notches to

 adjust it to more accuarte setting. 

 

 

 

 Dave 

 

 

   ---

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Thanks Dave and Kurt



I will take a look at it this evening and if I get stuck will drop you a

line. Also to others  thanks for the info re fuel drain - as I recall the

gasket fit on one of the fuel caps was much tighter than the other. When I

noticed this I made myself a note to replace both but really didn't make the

connection between fuel flow.



On another matter are there any Kitfox pilots in the Ottawa area that might

be available for some flight training. I have a friend in Westport that

purchased C-IGVW that could do with some assistance?



Regards



Gary Algate

Model 4/Jab2200



--

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Gary, check the sealing surface of the fuel tank  necks for any nicks or imperfections.  Both tanks must seal perfectly or  they will have unequal pressure from the pitots.  This will cause the fuel  in one tank to be pushed over to the other tank.

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Gary,



We discussed this on our trip and one guy suggested that the fuel flow has 

to do with the vent on the right tank.  His thinking is - and I sort of 

agree with it - that the pitot on the fuel cap gives some pressure on the 

left tank - thought to be 1 or so psi.  The right tank is vented and the 

pitot pressure on that tank is neutralized by the vent which tend to 

pressurize the header tank rather than the wing tank.



The most significant thing, though, is that it is no problem unless you 

don't like the assymetry.



Lowell

---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Totally agree with Don.  We had an interesting experience on our first Idaho 

trip.  Two of the pilots met up with the rest of us at Elk City.  One of 

those guys was all Ga Ga over his fuel flow and insisted that we take the 

time to check out his system.  The adult son of one of the regulars - a 

mechanical type by profession -  actually disassembled the fuel lines and 

using a can, did a timed fuel flow test.  The flow results were exactly the 

same.



With all the Kitfoxes out there, I have never heard of an airplane sucking 

air as one tank emptied and the other remained full.  My last trip home from 

the Utah fly-in and the 30 minute descent from the 10,000 ft Sierra crossing 

to my home's 1300 ft. I saw six gallons on one tank and no fuel in the sight 

gauge on the other and no blinks from a very sensitive low fuel sensor over 

the header tank.  And I was watching indeed as this is the unporting pitch 

position on the old tanks.



With a properly constructed fuel system, it is simply nothing more than a 

cosmetic phenomenon.



Lowell



---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Also, I have mud mud wasps lately making nests inside pitot tubes on gas 

caps.

Try blowing through each preflight.

Dave

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

I have removed the finger screens in both tanks, as well as the 

quick-drains in each tank, per suggestions from this group. I stole an 

idea from Bill Willyard (thanks, Bill) and used a quarter-turn shutoff 

valve in each fuel line (8 inches down from the tanks) just ahead of an 

in-line Purolator glass filter (now sold by NAPA) then down to my 

header tank (thanks Deke) which acts as a gascolator. I use this as my 

sump drain to check for water, contaminants, etc. One of these days 

I'll use a suction gun to get right down to the bottom of the header 

tank and see what has accumulated there. From the header tank I go 

through another glass filter before the Facet pump and then onto the 

Jabiru's mechanical pump.



Like you Gary, I have seen my tanks use a little more from one side 

than the other, then it will change. Because I'm learning to fly, I am 

practicing maneuvers, and probably doing more to one side than the 

other on occasion. When I hangar the plane, I park it level, and the 

next day the tanks are equal, as I leave the tank valves open and 

things normalize overnight.



One of these days, I'll shut off the two feed lines and see how my 

low-fuel warning system works....maybe while cruising right over the 

airport. : )



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200



On Monday, August 21, 2006, at 09:11  AM, Algate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Good morning



  



 I flew a short cross country on the weekend from Barrie to the UPAC 

 (Ultra Light Pilots Association Canada) convention near Waterloo 

 (approx 100 miles).



  



 My new acquisition performed great  but I noticed that the pilot side 

 tank drained at almost twice the rate of the Passenger side. I have 

 heard stories that if you fly un-coordinated this can happen but I was 

 definitely flying straight and true.



  



 When I landed I checked the fuel flow from the tank into the header 

 but it was excellent (I have a large puddle to prove it).



  



 I have no valves in the system other than the main fuel shut off under 

 the panel  and although I’m sure that both tanks would eventually 

 drain I really don’t understand the variation. I have a low fuel 

 warning mounted on my header so I will do some circuits to see if the 

  tank drains completely before the other one starts to flow.



  



 Do I have a problem or is it normal to see unequal fuel flow?



  



 Regards



  



 Gary Algate



 Model 4 / Jab2200

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Thanks Lowell



I wouldn't have even been concerned but my last plane had a single wing tank

and a 10 Gal Panel tank. I noticed on a few occasions that the fuel would

stop flowing from the wing if I used a lot of flap or carried out a long

descent with low wing tank. I could see this because I had a clear fuel line

but it was never an issue as I had a panel tank that I could easily see

remaining fuel level. I actually fitted a primer bulb between the wing tank

and panel tank which made it extremely easy to re-start the flow if the wing

tank ever un-ported. 

With my new plane having dual wing tanks and a hidden header tank I have no

visual perception of what is going on so that is why I immediately fitted

the low fuel level sensor on the small header tank behind my seat and my

ensuing question re fuel flow.



With all of the responses it appears that my concerns are not that valid



Thanks again



Gary Algate

Model 4/Jab2400



--

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

What about an equalizing "vent line" between  the two tanks.  That's what my C-150 does, but it doesn't completely flow  equally either, since the Cessna vent is located in the Pilots tank ONLY.   Were the Kitfoxes are Vented using the fill cap on each tank, the cross flow  vent ( above fuel level) might improve this.  What do you think???   Bob U. 

 [quote]   ---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Bob,



I don't understand.  Before I worry about fixes, I like to be able to 

understand the problem. Can you explain the problem so I can understand it?



Lowell

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Rats! You outdid me Gary...now I have to get one of those 2400 Jabiru's 

too! : ) (see your sig)



Lynn

do not archive

On Monday, August 21, 2006, at 05:27  PM, Algate wrote:



[quote] 



 Thanks Lowell



 I wouldn't have even been concerned but my last plane had a single 

 wing tank

 and a 10 Gal Panel tank. I noticed on a few occasions that the fuel 

 would

 stop flowing from the wing if I used a lot of flap or carried out a 

 long

 descent with low wing tank. I could see this because I had a clear 

 fuel line

 but it was never an issue as I had a panel tank that I could easily see

 remaining fuel level. I actually fitted a primer bulb between the wing 

 tank

 and panel tank which made it extremely easy to re-start the flow if 

 the wing

 tank ever un-ported.

 With my new plane having dual wing tanks and a hidden header tank I 

 have no

 visual perception of what is going on so that is why I immediately 

 fitted

 the low fuel level sensor on the small header tank behind my seat and 

 my

 ensuing question re fuel flow.



 With all of the responses it appears that my concerns are not that 

 valid



 Thanks again



 Gary Algate

 Model 4/Jab2400



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: Kitfox-Fuel Flow

Ok guys, correct me if you can. Did we not decide many years ago to not

install the cross tub (vent) because the tanks were porting and caused

several ship to go down.



John Oakley




Bob,



I don't understand.  Before I worry about fixes, I like to be able to 

understand the problem. Can you explain the problem so I can understand it?



Lowell

From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

What about an equalizing "vent line" between the two tanks.  That's what my 

C-150 does, but it doesn't completely flow equally either, since the Cessna 

vent is located in the Pilots tank ONLY.  Were the Kitfoxes are Vented using



the fill cap on each tank, the cross flow vent ( above fuel level) might 

improve this.  What do you think???  Bob U.

  ---

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