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heavy wing

 
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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Hello all,
During my vacation in the french <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Alps, I had the following incident: after
take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the
right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was
controllable with a significant effort on the stick. I first thought I had
a control jamming but in fact there were no jamming, but only a heavy
wing feeling. Rolling to the left was very difficult. Looking at the
control surfaces, I could not see anything unusual. Reducing the airspeed
decreased the effort to keep the wings level. Cycling the landing gear /
flaps did not change the situation. I decided not to land on the closest
airstrip but instead fly to a bigger airfield were I new I could find help.
After half an hour of a stressful flight and a direct approach in order to
avoid turning left in the pattern, the landing was uneventful. On the
ground the controls were absolutely normal. I decided I would not take off
again without having checked the integrity of all the roll control
system. With the help of friends, we removed the wings so that I could
inspect all control rods, bellcranks, torque tubes, bearings and quick connect system. We found absolutely nothing. We put the plane back together and off I went. Everything was back to normal. I flew a
dozen times since that day without experiencing the problem again. What could have caused this
heavy wing? I see one possibility: during the take off roll, a stone may have been
thrown by the main wheel or outrigger wheel and ended up in the left
outrigger mechanism or the left flap slot, therefore preventing the left
flap to fully retract and causing the airplane to roll to the right.
Cycling the gear did not dislodge the stone but the bump on landing did.
Has anyone experienced a similar problem ?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 425 hours
[quote][b]

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Remi
If the roll was present with flaps/gear down, then that would indicate
right flap not fully down.
Flaps up indicates left flap not fully up.
What about the ailerons? Mud on the bottom surface of the right aileron?
Mud on the leading edge? Any ice about?
Graham

Rémi Guerner wrote:

Quote:
Hello all,

During my vacation in the french Alps, I had the following incident: after
take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the
right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was
controllable with a significant effort on the stick.



Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 425 hours





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william(at)wrmills.plus.c
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Remi,
I am not offering any suggestions, but I am intrigued as to your description of the control surfaces looking normal. When you looked at the control surfaces with the flaps up and with the heavy right wing, were the ailerons in line with the flaps and the wing tips on both wings, or was the right aileron slightly down and the left one up to counteract the tendency to roll right?
With the flaps / wheel down for landing was the aircraft back in balance?
If the left flap had not fully retracted, I would have thought the aileron and flap would not have lined up, particularly on the left wing.
If it were a stone that had caused the problem, perhaps speed kit fairings would have guarded the hinges and outrigger mechanisms against that. I presume you have not fitted them?
Best wishes,
William
[quote] ---

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Randerson(at)skewstacks.f
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:41 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Rémi,
I have had a similar problem of a pronounced inclination to roll to the left on a particular day. Likewise I could find no reason and I haven't had a re-occurrence. I rig my aircraft every day and I put it down to the flap pin not engaging fully on one side on that particular day, such that the flap was slightly more outboard than it would normally be. I always make a point now of pulling the flaps firmly up against the fuselage as soon as the wing is engaged.
Kind regards,
Roger (G-BXTD)
[quote] ---

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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
William,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I confirm there were nothing like an aileron up and the other one down. The ailerons are very effective in the Europa, so a few millimeter deflection was probably enough to keep the wing level. A few milimeter cannot be detected visually in flight.
I cannot be sure the roll tendency was present with the flaps down, as my judgment was disturbed by the stress. I believe now it was not. I do not have the speed kit fairing and I agree this would prevent foreign objects to jam the outrigger mechanism. I am planning to fit them one day.

Regards
Remi


Remi,
I am not offering any suggestions, but I am intrigued as to your
description of the control surfaces looking normal. When you looked at
the control surfaces with the flaps up and with the heavy right wing,
were the ailerons in line with the flaps and the wing tips on both
wings, or was the right aileron slightly down and the left one up to
counteract the tendency to roll right?
With the flaps / wheel down for landing was the aircraft back in
balance?
If the left flap had not fully retracted, I would have thought the
aileron and flap would not have lined up, particularly on the left wing.
If it were a stone that had caused the problem, perhaps speed kit
fairings would have guarded the hinges and outrigger mechanisms against
that. I presume you have not fitted them?
Best wishes,
William
---

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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Graham,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
I am not sure now that the roll was present with the flaps/gear down, probably not.
No mud , no ice for sure.


Remi
If the roll was present with flaps/gear down, then that would indicate
right flap not fully down.
Flaps up indicates left flap not fully up.
What about the ailerons? Mud on the bottom surface of the right aileron?
Mud on the leading edge? Any ice about?
Graham

Rmi Guerner wrote:

[quote] Hello all,

During my vacation in the french <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Alps, I had the following incident: after
take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the
right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was
controllable with a significant effort on the stick. [quote][b]

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Hi! Remi/Roger.
I have had occasions, when rigging, that the flap pin hasn’t engaged but my clearances between flap outboard end and inboard end of the ailerons are tight and they both foul up when pushed together making the complaint obvious to the feel on the control stick, I could imagine it would make for very stiff control. However in my case even if the pin hasn’t engaged the flap extension has a taper tube down which the drive shaft locates for single man rigging so the flap would still drive anyway.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG  


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Anderson
Sent: 24 August 2006 09:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: heavy wing

Rémi,

I have had a similar problem of a pronounced inclination to roll to the left on a particular day. Likewise I could find no reason and I haven't had a re-occurrence. I rig my aircraft every day and I put it down to the flap pin not engaging fully on one side on that particular day, such that the flap was slightly more outboard than it would normally be. I always make a point now of pulling the flaps firmly up against the fuselage as soon as the wing is engaged.

Kind regards,

Roger (G-BXTD)
[quote]
---

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kpaviat(at)verizon.net
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
A stuck rudder will induce a heavy roll...did you consider this a possibility??? Right rudder needed on takeoff will result in right roll tendency in flight.
kp [quote][b]

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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: heavy wing Reply with quote
Kim,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The rudder was fully functional.
Remi


From: Kim Prout <kpaviat(at)verizon.net (kpaviat(at)verizon.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: heavy wing

A stuck rudder will induce a heavy roll...did you consider this a
possibility??? Right rudder needed on takeoff will result in right roll
tendency in flight.
kp [quote][b]

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