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morid(at)northland.lib.mi
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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: Grass strips |
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Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more
forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than paved
strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even
better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people who
have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up here
in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds me of
the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control.
Deke
S5 TD
| Quote: |
I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are
done.
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| Quote: | Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a grass
strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure
that
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| Quote: | everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a former
Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world
--Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
McConnell
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| Quote: | Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger
dangerous
Mike,
Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete.
Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or made
the
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| Quote: | push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very much,
just
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| Quote: | not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I
haven't
|
[quote] gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety
conscious.
Roger Mac
S7/912s (trigear)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
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dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: Grass strips |
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Deke, You are absoutly correct !!
Grass is alot easier that paved runways.
It should be part of every flight test.
When i did my priv license almost 26 years ago we trained from pavement but
also nearly every flight did soft field and short field operations.
Luckily we do have a few "licensed " grass strips nearby so I think that
made it legal with insurance regs.
I think it good training to be able to landing narrow strips as well like 40
feet or less. One never knows when a 2 lane road might be your only option
for a forced landing.
Practice will not make perfect but it helps you make good decisions at
critical moments.
Is there really folks that are not flying a Kitfox into grass for this
reason ? I can see if we wer all flying 421's or 310s or a Lear 35 into
grass but a fox not in a grass strip ?
Dave
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: Grass strips |
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Speaking of grass strips, Deke, what're the dimensions for yours and
the headings? Easier to get in and out than Howland?
Lynn
do not archive
On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 07:51 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
[quote]
<morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us>
Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more
forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than
paved
strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even
better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people
who
have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up
here
in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds
me of
the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control.
Deke
S5 TD
>
>
> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are
done.
> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a
> grass
> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure
that
> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a
> former
> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world
> --Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
McConnell
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a
> taildragger
> dangerous
>
>
> <rdmac(at)swbell.net>
>
> Mike,
> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete.
> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or
> made
the
> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very
> much,
just
> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I
haven't
> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety
> conscious.
>
> Roger Mac
> S7/912s (trigear)
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> --
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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mike
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Grass strips |
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I never said landing on grass strips where for daredevils, but I believe some off field flying is. I'm sure a lot of us know what these are. I will try and describe some strips. On a side of a mountain where you land going up hill, greater than 4% grade. Holes and rocks sure enough to knock out a landing gear, if you where to take your 4X4 into them you wouldn't be able to drive through them very well. 150ft. trees on the approach end of the strip and then less than 1000ft length. Trees along the side of the runway, if you're off just a little your in them. Or try a cliff of the side of the strip that goes up 3000ft. that sujects you to cross winds and updrafts(yes you can argue that johnson creek is that way, but you have to remember, this strip is 150ft. wide and no trees). These are just some examples.
I will say I've seen some real good grass fields and I've landed on them, I agree, grass is better than cement. Lot more forgiving. But there is a line to be drawn on what ones are safe and the ones that are daredevil strips.
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dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: Grass strips |
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Where I live we don't have any extreme strips like that. But we got lots of
water, lakes and rivers.
---
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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: Grass strips |
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I live on a grass strip and think everyone should fly from them. One caveat that did not occur to me despite 200 or more dry grass strip landings, however, is this: When wet, the grass is very slick. I was landing early one perfect morning and the dew had not yet evaporated. I touched down on the 1000ft strip at my Dad's house and applied a little brake as usual. No appreciable deceration. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed the main gear was locked. I stopped in plenty of time and with more respect for wet grass.
Maxwell S6/TW/IO240
Fox5flyer <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more
forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than paved
strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even
better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people who
have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up here
in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds me of
the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control.
Deke
S5 TD
| Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull"
I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are
done.
|
| Quote: | Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a grass
strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure
that
|
| Quote: | everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a former
Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world
--Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
McConnell
|
| Quote: | Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger
dangerous
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell"
Mike,
Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete.
Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or made
the
|
| Quote: | push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very much,
just
|
| Quote: | not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I
haven't
|
[quote] gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety
conscious.
Roger Mac
S7/912s (trigear)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: Grass strips |
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Hi Lynn. I'm not home right now, but my two strips are 1600 and 1220,
intersecting with the windsock at the vertex. The 1600 is east/west with no
obstacles and the 1220 is north/south with obstacles both ends. The 1220 is a
bit of a challenge, especially dropping down over the wires landing to the
north. I generally use it for takeoff if winds are calm and generally use the
long one for landing. Then again, it all depends on the wind.
I'll send a photo when I get home on Sunday or Monday.
Deke
[quote]
Speaking of grass strips, Deke, what're the dimensions for yours and
the headings? Easier to get in and out than Howland?
Lynn
do not archive
On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 07:51 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more
> forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than
> paved
> strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even
> better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people
> who
> have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up
> here
> in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds
> me of
> the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control.
> Deke
> S5 TD
>
>>
>>
>> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are
> done.
>> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a
>> grass
>> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure
> that
>> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a
>> former
>> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world
>>
>>
>> --Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
> McConnell
>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM
>> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a
>> taildragger
>> dangerous
>>
>>
>> <rdmac(at)swbell.net>
>>
>> Mike,
>> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete.
>> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or
>> made
> the
>> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very
>> much,
> just
>> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I
> haven't
>> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety
>> conscious.
>>
>> Roger Mac
>> S7/912s (trigear)
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>> --
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kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: Grass strips |
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Series 7, under construction, 912S, tailwheel
Ken Jones - South Central PA
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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