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Engine mount out of spec

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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

With the recent thread, this will sound like whining, but ...

  

 I had to replace the engine mount and nose gear leg on my -7A  recently.  When I put the cowling back on I now have about 5/8 inch gap  between the spinner and cowl -- gross.  You can look in there and see all  the innards.

  

 I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount.  I was  told that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be  something else causing the problem.  Since I am using the same  everything else, I can't see what else it could be.  With the engine  mounted and 2 weeks of connecting up everything already done, I am stuck.   Now 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch doesn't sound like much, but The airplane was  already too nose heavy, and I am now going to have to do major fiberglass work  on the cowl to correct the gross errors in the engine mount.  You can't  know about these tolerances when you build your airplane because you trim the  cowl to fit whatever errors are built into your mount, or anything else on the  plane.  I can see why Van says that all these airplanes are  different!

  

 Its still a great airplane.  Its still a great airplane.  Its  still a great airplane.  I have to keep reminding myself of that!

  

 do not archive

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A 175 hours and holding

  

  [quote][b]

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Thought about shimming the mount away from the firewall?  I know it  has been done before on RVs when folks upgraded from FP to CS props, and the  spinner ended up further away from the cowl...

  

 do not archive

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

 http://www.rvproject.com

 [quote]   ---

rickgray(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Not sure which prop you have but...on the C/S Hartzell there are shims put in when you fit the spinner to set the backplate distance....you may gain some 'working area' by looking at the shims. Also.....I'd be tempted to look at my spinner and rework some fiberglass to the back end thus 'extending' the spinner back at tad over the rear bulkhead....this would be a LOT easier and quicker than working on the cowls...I've done a handful of RV's and a couple rebuilds/finishes for others....ask me how I know.



Good Luck

Rick at the Buffalo Farm

http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/



[quote] Thought about shimming the mount away from the firewall?  I know it has been done before on RVs when folks upgraded from FP to CS props, and the spinner ended up further away from the cowl...

 

 do not archive

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

 http://www.rvproject.com

   ---

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Hi Dan,

  

 Err, uh, that would make the problem even worse!

  

 Dan H

  

  

 In a message dated 8/29/2006 11:12:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dan(at)rvproject.com writes:

 [quote]   Thought about shimming the mount away from the firewall?  I know it    has been done before on RVs when folks upgraded from FP to CS props, and the    spinner ended up further away from the cowl...

    

   do not archive

   )_( Dan

   RV-7 N714D

   http://www.rvproject.com

   [quote]     ---

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Hi Rick,

  

 That is a good suggestion.  Yes, I have a C/S Hartzell.  I went  out to the hangar and looked things over again.  It seems like the front  bulkhead would keep me from gaining more than about 1/8 inch.  Can someone  tell me how much material extends behind the rear bulkhead on an untrimmed  spinner?  Replacing the spinner would be preferable to me rather than  adding fiberglass.  Mine is trimmed even with the bulkhead, and I don't  remember how much of it I trimmed away.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A 200 HP Angle valve engine

  

  

 In a message dated 8/29/2006 11:33:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rickgray(at)adelphia.net writes:

 [quote]-->    RV-List message posted by: <rickgray(at)adelphia.net>

Not sure    which prop you have but...on the C/S Hartzell there are shims put in when you    fit the spinner to set the backplate distance....you may gain some 'working    area' by looking at the shims. Also.....I'd be tempted to look at my spinner    and rework some fiberglass to the back end thus 'extending' the spinner back    at tad over the rear bulkhead....this would be a LOT easier and quicker than    working on the cowls...I've done a handful of RV's and a couple    rebuilds/finishes for others....ask me how I know.



Good Luck

Rick at    the Buffalo    Farm

http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/



[quote]    Thought about shimming the mount away from the firewall?  I know it has    been done before on RVs when folks upgraded from FP to CS props, and the    spinner ended up further away from the cowl...

 

 do not    archive

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

    http://www.rvproject.com

   ---

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dan,

 My un-trimmed spinner for Hartzell C/S barely had enough to cover the rear  bulkhead. Mine was delivered in 1999. Maybe later produced spinners had more.  The current spinners sure have a much better finish to them than the one I got  seven years ago.

 Dale Ensing

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Doh!  Got my brain on backwards this morning.  Good thing I'm not  flying.

  

 do not archive

 )_( Dan

 [quote]   ---

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount.  I was  told 

  that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be  

something 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   else causing the problem.  Since I am using the same  everything else, I 

can't 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   see what else it could be.  With the engine  mounted and 2 weeks of 

connecting 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   up everything already done, I am stuck. 

==================================
	


Dan:



Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see 

if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.  



I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration 

mounts?  They wouldn't happen to be Lord?



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount.  I was  told 

  that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be  

something 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   else causing the problem.  Since I am using the same  everything else, I 

can't 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   see what else it could be.  With the engine  mounted and 2 weeks of 

connecting 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   up everything already done, I am stuck. 

==================================
	


Dan:



Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see 

if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.  



I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration 

mounts?  They wouldn't happen to be Lord?



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Barry,

  

 Yes, they are Lord, I think.  They are the from Vans.  But, they  are the exact same ones I had on the other mount and in the same  positions.  When I took the engine off the mount, I put each set in a  separate zip-lock bag and labeled it.  I referred to the plans again and  put the high durometer mounts in the right locations -- just like I had them  before.  I kept them stacked just like I took them off and restarted the  nuts.  I'm very sure that there is no mistake here.

  

 There is one possibility.  The engine case is not the same one,  but a different IO-360-C1E6 off the shelf at Divco.  I agreed to take a  different case to speed up the turnaround.  If I had it to do over again I  wouldn't do this.  I am using an IO-360-A1A sump and intake tubes on this  engine, which I believe makes it an IO-360-A1D6.  Do you know of any  problem like this between cases?

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/29/2006 5:27:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com



In a message dated 8/29/06    10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I    called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount.  I was     told 

  that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there    must be  

something 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   else causing the problem.  Since I    am using the same  everything else, I 

can't 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   see what else it    could be.  With the engine  mounted and 2 weeks of 

connecting    
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   up everything already done, I am stuck.    

==================================
	


Dan:



Before you go through    all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see 

if you have the    thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.  



I    have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration    

mounts?  They wouldn't happen to be Lord?



Barry

"Chop'd    Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick    them the third 

time."  es  Day       -->                - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

bsp;    -->  nbsp;                - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

_-=  ;  p;               - List Contribution Web Site  ;                             =========================



	


 

  

  [quote][b]

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Do you know of any problem like this between cases?

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

	


 ================================

 Hi Dan:

  

 Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.  

 I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.

 When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back to effect things at the front.

  

 Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a difference?

  

 Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dan,

  Vans does not sell Lord or Barry brand mounts. The mount kit they supply is made by VIP, Vibration Isolation Products.

 Charlie Kuss

 [quote]Barry,

 Yes, they are Lord, I think.  They are the from Vans.  But, they are the exact same ones I had on the other mount and in the same positions.  When I took the engine off the mount, I put each set in a separate zip-lock bag and labeled it.  I referred to the plans again and put the high durometer mounts in the right locations -- just like I had them before.  I kept them stacked just like I took them off and restarted the nuts.  I'm very sure that there is no mistake here.

 There is one possibility.  The engine case is not the same one, but a different IO-360-C1E6 off the shelf at Divco.  I agreed to take a different case to speed up the turnaround.  If I had it to do over again I wouldn't do this.  I am using an IO-360-A1A sump and intake tubes on this engine, which I believe makes it an IO-360-A1D6.  Do you know of any problem like this between cases?

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

 In a message dated 8/29/2006 5:27:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:

   --> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com

  In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

  Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:

  > I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount.  I was  told 

  >  that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be  

  something 

  > else causing the problem.  Since I am using the same  everything else, I 

  can't 

  > see what else it could be.  With the engine  mounted and 2 weeks of 

  connecting 

  > up everything already done, I am stuck. 

  ==================================

  Dan:

  Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see 

  if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.  

  I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration 

  mounts?  They wouldn't happen to be Lord?

  Barry

  "Chop'd Liver"

  "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

  time." es Day   -->             - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

  bsp; --> nbsp;             - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

  p;            - List Contribution Web Site ;                         =========================

 [b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Barry,

  

 No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times.  There is no  way to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount.  I understand  that washers can make a big difference.  Since the distance between the  mounts is about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1  difference, maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal  mount.

  

 What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about  3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and  adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I  don't have room enough in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is  the FAB induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle  in front.  Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.   Moving the whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo  this when building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is  messing up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg  fairing that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with  primer patches for a while.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,    Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		       Do you know of any problem like this between      cases?

      

     Dan Hopper

     RV-7A

	


   ================================

   Hi Dan:

    

   Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.  

   I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING    problems.

   When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the    back to effect things at the front.

    

   Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will    make a difference?

    

   Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct    them the second time, kick them the third 

time."    

Yamashiada

 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 

  

  [quote][b]

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

OK, Dan:

  

 One more trick ...

 This may not look the best but it does work and of course you can go fancy and improve the idea...

 Get a piece of 1/2" Pipe insulation foam.

 Cut it length wise in half so now you have something that look like a 'C'

 With the 'C' facing OUT (towards you), glue one part of the 'C' to the cowl and let the other part fit up against the spinner.

 The glue to use is 3M's Weather Stripping Adhesive (Red & White tube / box).

 This will seal the gap between the spinner and the cowl.

 Don't worry about it being bigger than the gap.  The spinning of the spinner will ware it to exact fit in a few minutes.

 And if you want to paint the foam, yes it is paintable.

 The advantage are:

 1 - Seals off an area of lost air.

 2 - Increases the positive air pressure in the upper cowl.

 3 - Adds to the cooling and

 4 - Makes for a better look than a huge gap.

  

 Now, the pipe insulation can be replace with a thick neoprene cut into an 'O' ring.

  

 I have this configuration on a Grumman, used it for 9 years, it only needed replacing once in 9 years.  And the scary thing is ... IT WORKS!

  

 Barry

 =======================================

 Barry,

  

 No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times.  There is no way to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount.  I understand that washers can make a big difference.  Since the distance between the mounts is about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.

  

 What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about 3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I don't have room enough in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is the FAB induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.  Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.  Moving the whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo this when building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is messing up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with primer patches for a while.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:

 [quote]  In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Do you know of any problem like this between cases?

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

	


 ================================

 Hi Dan:

  

 Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.  

 I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.

 When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back to effect things at the front.

  

 Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a difference?

  

 Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

[b]

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dan,

  Just a thought to consider. I know that Divco offers to modify Dynafocal type II cases to type I specification. I would think that this would require material to be machined from the rear of the case at this point. Perhaps if this was done to your cases, it could explain the gap. Perhaps a phone call to the shop who overhauled the crankcases is in order?

 Charlie Kuss



 

 [quote]Barry,

  

 No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times.  There is no way to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount.  I understand that washers can make a big difference.  Since the distance between the mounts is about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.

  

 What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about 3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I don't have room enough in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is the FAB induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.  Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.  Moving the whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo this when building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is messing up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with primer patches for a while.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:

   In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:

   Do you know of any problem like this between cases?

   

  Dan Hopper

  RV-7A



   ================================

  Hi Dan:

   

  Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.  

  I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.

  When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back to effect things at the front.

   

  Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a difference?

   

  Barry

  "Chop'd Liver"



  "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

  time." 

  Yamashiada



  	  Quote: 	
		  



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List



.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com



ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com



www.matronics.com/contribution

">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[/b] 	
  



 [b]

rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dan, I would explore sending the mount back to Vans for a refund and get a "custom" mount made by Snowline Mfg. in Oregon, who build the mounts for Van's.  It may be possible to make a mount to your specs using the factory jigs, all they'd have to do is put some washers in under the firewall attach points when they bolt those pieces into the jig (and build up the mount from there).  Assuming some of the other fixtures of the jig that hold the nosegear socket are bolted to the jig base and those could be raised perpendicular to the plane of the firewall as well.  That would in effect shorten the length of the mount if a new one were constructed to your specs.  I did a lot of work designing the jig and the 3rd generation of engine mounts for the F1, and have stayed at a Holiday In Express.   My guess is that there are several jigs in use and it may be that there are some significant dimensional differences between the jigs.  I'd call Snowline and see what they may come up with for you.  IMO that would be a far better solution than cutting into the cowl, at the very minimum you wouldn't be making a CG problem worse. 



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



On 8/30/06, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) < Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com)> wrote:[quote]      Barry,

  

 No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times.  There is no  way to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount.  I understand  that washers can make a big difference.  Since the distance between the  mounts is about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1  difference, maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal  mount.

  

 What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about  3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and  adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I  don't have room enough in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is  the FAB induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle  in front.  Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.   Moving the whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo  this when building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is  messing up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg  fairing that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with  primer patches for a while.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com (FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   	


       In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,    Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		         Do you know of any problem like this between      cases?

       

      Dan Hopper

      RV-7A

	




    =======

    Hi Dan:

     

    Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.  

    I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING    problems.

    When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the    back to effect things at the front.

     

    Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will    make a difference?

     



    

 Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct    them the second time, kick them the third 

time."    



Yamashiada 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


  =" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List  _blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com ronics.com/"> http://wiki.matronics.com

  ://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  

 

  



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turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

bo124rs(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dan, if you do choose to extend the aft portion of your firewall, let me 

give you some advice from my plastic airplane building days.  Find a local 

custom gutter company, the ones with the forming machine on a trailer.  Get 

a couple scrap pieces of the flat stocklong enough to go wrap completely 

around the aft of the cowl.  Wax either surface very well and rivet this to 

the outside of the cowl, extend aft your desired distance.  This material 

flexes and bends very, very easily.  Now you have surface flush with the 

outside edge of your cowl that is used to blend the addition on quite 

nicely.  Go to playing with glass, let dry, drill the rivets out and pop the 

form off the cowl.  All you should have to do now is fill in the gap left 

between the cowl and your addition.



After all this, you probably know of another method:-), but gutter scrap has 

been used in the plastic world extensively.



Dana Overall

Richmond, KY i39

RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"

O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4

http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html

do not archive



_________________________________________________________________

Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!  

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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Dana,

  

 Thanks very very much!  That would make this a lot easier than  how I was going to do it.  I am going to take Bob's advice and see if the  engine mount can be modified because he is right about the cg.  That would  also save me a lot of paint work.

  

 The plane is already nose heavy, and this should only move it about another  1/8 inch forward, but that is in the wrong direction.

  

 Thanks again,

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:24:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  bo124rs(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall"    <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com>



Dan, if you do choose to extend the aft    portion of your firewall, let me 

give you some advice from my plastic    airplane building days.  Find a local 

custom gutter company, the ones    with the forming machine on a trailer.  Get 

a couple scrap pieces of    the flat stocklong enough to go wrap completely 

around the aft of the    cowl.  Wax either surface very well and rivet this to 

the outside of    the cowl, extend aft your desired distance.  This material 

flexes and    bends very, very easily.  Now you have surface flush with the 

outside    edge of your cowl that is used to blend the addition on quite    

nicely.  Go to playing with glass, let dry, drill the rivets out and    pop the 

form off the cowl.  All you should have to do now is fill in    the gap left 

between the cowl and your addition.



After all this,    you probably know of another method:-), but gutter scrap has 

been used in    the plastic world extensively.



Dana Overall

Richmond, KY i39

RV-7    slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"

O 360 A1A, C/S    C2YK-1BF/F7666A4

http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html

do not    archive

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Bob,

 Good advice.  I will see if a search will locate them.

 Thanks,

 Dan

  

 do not archive

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 12:41:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rocketbob(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Dan, I    would explore sending the mount back to Vans for a refund and get a "custom"    mount made by Snowline Mfg. in Oregon, who build the mounts for Van's.     It may be possible to make a mount to your specs using the factory jigs, all    they'd have to do is put some washers in under the firewall attach points when    they bolt those pieces into the jig (and build up the mount from there).     Assuming some of the other fixtures of the jig that hold the nosegear socket    are bolted to the jig base and those could be raised perpendicular to the    plane of the firewall as well.  That would in effect shorten the length    of the mount if a new one were constructed to your specs.  I did a lot of    work designing the jig and the 3rd generation of engine mounts for the F1, and    have stayed at a Holiday In Express.   My guess is that there are    several jigs in use and it may be that there are some significant dimensional    differences between the jigs.  I'd call Snowline and see what they may    come up with for you.  IMO that would be a far better solution than    cutting into the cowl, at the very minimum you wouldn't be making a CG problem    worse. 



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



   On 8/30/06, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) <    Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com)> wrote:     	  Quote: 	
		                      Barry,

      

     No, I have looked this thing over      about a hundred times.  There is no way to get 3/8 inch out from      between the case and the mount.  I understand that washers can make a      big difference.  Since the distance between the mounts is about half      the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe a      little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.

      

     What looks like my best      alternative, all things considered, is to add about 3/8 inch at the rear of      the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and adding some glass around      the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I don't have room enough      in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is the FAB induction      box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.       Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.  Moving the      whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo this when      building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is messing      up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing      that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with      primer patches for a while.

      

     Dan Hopper

     RV-7A

      

      

     In a message dated 8/30/2006      5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com (FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com)      writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  	


               In a      message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com)      writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		         Do you know of any problem like this        between cases?

        

       Dan Hopper

       RV-7A

	




          =======

     Hi      Dan:

      

     Sorry,      I don't know of any problems between cases.  

     I      mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING      problems.

     When      setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back to      effect things at the front.

      

     Just      for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a      difference?

      



          

     Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first      time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time."      



     Yamashiada 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


     ="ronics.com/">

     ://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ="return      top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution      

     

      



      	  Quote: 	
		  



the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,

ronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

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turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com

"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com

                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

http://www.matronics.com/contribution

=========== 	


     







="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

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://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 

  

  [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Engine mount out of spec

Bob,

  

 I called Snowline Mfg. and they said that they don't make RV engine  mounts.  Does anyone know who does?

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

 In a message dated 8/30/2006 12:41:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rocketbob(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Dan, I    would explore sending the mount back to Vans for a refund and get a "custom"    mount made by Snowline Mfg. in Oregon, who build the mounts for Van's.     It may be possible to make a mount to your specs using the factory jigs, all    they'd have to do is put some washers in under the firewall attach points when    they bolt those pieces into the jig (and build up the mount from there).     Assuming some of the other fixtures of the jig that hold the nosegear socket    are bolted to the jig base and those could be raised perpendicular to the    plane of the firewall as well.  That would in effect shorten the length    of the mount if a new one were constructed to your specs.  I did a lot of    work designing the jig and the 3rd generation of engine mounts for the F1, and    have stayed at a Holiday In Express.   My guess is that there are    several jigs in use and it may be that there are some significant dimensional    differences between the jigs.  I'd call Snowline and see what they may    come up with for you.  IMO that would be a far better solution than    cutting into the cowl, at the very minimum you wouldn't be making a CG problem    worse. 



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.



   On 8/30/06, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) <    Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com)> wrote:     	  Quote: 	
		                      Barry,

      

     No, I have looked this thing over      about a hundred times.  There is no way to get 3/8 inch out from      between the case and the mount.  I understand that washers can make a      big difference.  Since the distance between the mounts is about half      the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe a      little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.

      

     What looks like my best      alternative, all things considered, is to add about 3/8 inch at the rear of      the cowl.  This means removing the hinges and adding some glass around      the cowl and refitting it.  I say this because I don't have room enough      in front for the way the baffle is made.  There is the FAB induction      box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.       Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.  Moving the      whole cowling forward seems like the best bet.  I had to redo this when      building the plane and it is not too bad.  The worst thing is messing      up the paint job.  I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing      that need to be painted anyway.  I will probably be flying it with      primer patches for a while.

      

     Dan Hopper

     RV-7A

      

      

     In a message dated 8/30/2006      5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com (FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com)      writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  	


               In a      message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com (Hopperdhh(at)aol.com)      writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		         Do you know of any problem like this        between cases?

        

       Dan Hopper

       RV-7A

	




          =======

     Hi      Dan:

      

     Sorry,      I don't know of any problems between cases.  

     I      mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING      problems.

     When      setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back to      effect things at the front.

      

     Just      for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a      difference?

      



          

     Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first      time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time."      



     Yamashiada 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


     ="ronics.com/">

     ://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ="return      top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution      

     

      



      	  Quote: 	
		  



the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,

ronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com

"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com

                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">

http://www.matronics.com/contribution

=========== 	


     







="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 

  

  [quote][b]

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