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Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies
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gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how I could build flanging dies out of wood.  

   

Not to be outdone by Dave’s Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of machinists, I finally made, and used (successfully), flanging dies out of plywood!  

   

I hope the attachments are within the abilities of all to download, and, since this is my first attempt at attaching an image, I am currently sitting uncomfortably in my asbestos underwear.  

   

Wood is really what I am most comfortable with. Switching from a Pietenpol to a 601 was a last minute decision after completing the WW Corvair Conversion. Any of you wood-chucks out there, like me, who wish a more detailed account can e-mail me directly.  (any body skinned their 601 fuselage with plywood?....just kidding…)  

   

Gary Boothe 

 Cool, CA 

 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 

 Tail done, wings done, working on c-section

Flanging_Dies_004.jpg

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Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I tried this approach, but found the ply’s delaminated when I tried to use them.  

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe

 Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

   

Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how I could build flanging dies out of wood.  

   

Not to be outdone by Dave’s Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of machinists, I finally   

   

        [quote][b]

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I was able to accomplish all 10 large holes in the nose ribs in approximately 15 minutes. The dies still look good, too. And that was Home Depot plywood! Guess I’ll keep my fingers crossed…  

   

Gary  

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds

 Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:58 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

   

I tried this approach, but found the ply’s delaminated when I tried to use them.  

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe

 Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

   

Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could scrap build my center section and fuselage (after kit building the tail and wings), I have been known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the night, visualizing how I could build flanging dies out of wood.  

   

Not to be outdone by Dave’s Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake, and in an obvious effort to take the food right out of the mouths of the babies of machinists, I finally   

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        [quote][b]

mtherr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's. 

The person who made them available to me made them out

of "Russian plywood".  He also made all forming blocs

using that material.  It is a very good plywood, but I

have no idea where we can find this.



Using them with a hydraulic press was very efficient.

See picture below:



http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/p6v31h.jpg



Michel

--- Gary Boothe <gboothe(at)calply.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I was able to accomplish all 10 large holes in the

 nose ribs in

 approximately 15 minutes. The dies still look good,

 too. And that was Home

 Depot plywood! Guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

  

 

 Gary

 _____  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On

 Behalf Of Gary Boothe

 Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

 

  

 

 Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could

 scrap build my center

 section and fuselage (after kit building the tail

 and wings), I have been

 known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the

 night, visualizing how I

 could build flanging dies out of wood.

 

  

 

 Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal

 Bending Brake, and in an

 obvious effort to take the food right out of the

 mouths of the babies of

 machinists, I finally 

 

  

 

  

  

  

 


	




----------------------------

Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ

  http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601

  http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby

  http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby



__________________________________________________

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Michael,  

   

You're my kind of guy! You could have bought a hydraulic press from Harbor Freight for about $100, but, no, you've got to build one out of wood!  

   

Gary  

Do not archive  

   

--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>  

   

I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's.   

The person who made them available to me made them out  

of "Russian plywood".  He also made all forming blocs  

using that material.  It is a very good plywood, but I  

have no idea where we can find this.  

   

Using them with a hydraulic press was very efficient.  

See picture below:  

   

http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/p6v31h.jpg  

   

Michel  

   

   

--- Gary Boothe <gboothe(at)calply.com> wrote:  

   

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was able to accomplish all 10 large holes in the  

 nose ribs in  

 approximately 15 minutes. The dies still look good,  

 too. And that was Home  

 Depot plywood! Guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.  

   

    

   

 Gary  

 _____    
	


 	  Quote: 	
		     

 From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  

 [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On  

 Behalf Of Gary Boothe  

 Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:04 PM  

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com  

 Subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

   

    

   

 Ever since Bill Naumuk convinced me that I could  

 scrap build my center  

 section and fuselage (after kit building the tail  

 and wings), I have been  

 known to stare at the ceiling in the middle of the  

 night, visualizing how I  

 could build flanging dies out of wood.  

   

    

   

 Not to be outdone by Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal  

 Bending Brake, and in an  

 obvious effort to take the food right out of the  

 mouths of the babies of  

 machinists, I finally   

   

    

   

    

    

    

   

   
	


   

----------------------------  

Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ  

  http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601  

  http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby  

  http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby  

   

__________________________________________________  

   

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

   

   

   

        [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I agree that Russian plywood is really good.  It is not the same sort 

of low-quality junk plywood available at the Harry Home-owner stores 

at all.  It is usually at least 7 layers of Birch.  You get more 

layers as you get thicker plywood.  It is also called Nordic Birch 

plywood - some of it even comes from countries other than Russia.



I can get it at two different wood stores in Portland, OR.  I like 

using it for all sorts of stuff around the shop including nice wood 

boxes.  You can probably find it at higher class hardwood outlets 

rather than construction lumber companies.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 06:25 PM 9/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's.

The person who made them available to me made them out

of "Russian plywood".  He also made all forming blocs

using that material.  It is a very good plywood, but I

have no idea where we can find this.



Using them with a hydraulic press was very efficient.

See picture below:



http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/p6v31h.jpg



Michel

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Gary and all-

     The credit belongs, as it  should, to those who came before me. 

     I learned to scratch build from  necessity, and wouldn't have had a clue if it weren't for the "Old timers". I've  said it before and I'll say it again- Zenith builders are a tiny fraction of the  world's population. We fight like hell (Although the latest Scotchbrite posts  have been relatively tame), but that's because we're brothers, and brothers  fight. 

     Just finished building a slight  modification of Larry Mac's cruciform jig, leveled and mounted my center wing.  30 hours total, less than $50 (Only if you make a trip to the scrapyard- buy new  steel and you're screwed). I consider it a necessity. Check out Larry's site- I  can give a few tips, but all the basics are there. His is designed for an HDS,  but you can modify it for an XL.

     Waiting for corrosion protectant  to dry on aileron bellcranks before assembly, then tomorrow I start on the  fuse!!! (Larry and Jeff, I figured I'd leave the relief radii until after I  rig everything).

     One final note. I HIGHLY  recommend the Homebuilder's Help DVDs. Wish I had them years ago. I doubt if Jon  and Mark have a single dissatisfied customer.

     Good building!

                                                                                      do not archive

 Bill Naumuk

45%HDS 

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ---

J2j3h4(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I'm thinking of using pressure-treated pine.  If you have ever worked  with this, you know that it is very hard.

  

 Jim Hasper

  

 In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:12:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz    <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>



I agree that Russian plywood is    really good.  It is not the same sort 

of low-quality junk plywood    available at the Harry Home-owner stores 

at all.  It is usually at    least 7 layers of Birch.  You get more 

layers as you get thicker    plywood.  It is also called Nordic Birch 

plywood - some of it even    comes from countries other than Russia.



I can get it at two different    wood stores in Portland, OR.  I like 

using it for all sorts of stuff    around the shop including nice wood 

boxes.  You can probably find it    at higher class hardwood outlets 

rather than construction lumber    companies.



Paul

XL  fuselage

	


  [quote][b]

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Pine is very soft compared to true hardwoods like oak, walnut, and hickory,  and you shouldn't need the poison of the PT. I can't see using fragile soft wood  like pine or birch unless you are going to whittle it by hand with a pocket  knife. Modern power tools don't care if they are cutting hard or soft wood, and  the hard wood would be more durable. 'Course I'm in the hardwoods country of the  Ozarks where these woods are plentiful. I'll soon be burning a truck load of  hardwood scraps to keep warm, free from a local mill, and most would be  ideal chunks to cut dies from. There is one advantage to plywood - the cross  grain would prevent cracking with the grain. I'd use ply before PT.

 [quote]   ---

rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Gary,

      Beautiful work on  the flanging die.  Considering the quality of your wood work I can see only  one thing wrong, you should have used hard wood then your die would last a lot  longer.  Your die looks like western fir and if it is, that's a soft  wood.

  

 Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx

 ZodiacXL

 [quote]   ---

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Bob,  

   

Of course you are right. This being the “prototype”, and the fact that it worked so well, I’ll make the two smaller ones out of oak. A few weeks ago someone posted that they had used some of that man-made wood decking material with good results. A person can use whatever they want.  Mostly, I thought to show the simple ‘jig’ that I used to create the male and female bevels.  

   

Gary  

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone

 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:40 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

     

Gary,  

    

     Beautiful work on the flanging die.  Considering the quality of your wood work I can see only one thing wrong, you should have used hard wood then your die would last a lot longer.  Your die looks like western fir and if it is, that's a soft wood.  

    

   

    

Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx  

    

ZodiacXL  

  [quote]    

---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

DUH!!! At a Russian plywood plant..... wasn't that obvious?



Ed



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I also used wooden flanging dies similar to your's. 

 The person who made them available to me made them out

 of "Russian plywood".  He also made all forming blocs

 using that material.  It is a very good plywood, but I

 have no idea where we can find this.

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time thinking  about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going through. In  the end, you will come to the realization that if pressure treated wood requires  the use of specially coated screws so that your fence or deck does not fall  apart in a couple of years, then it probably isn't a good material to use  to squeeze aircraft aluminum into shape. There now, take a deep breath.... feel  better?

  

 Ed Moody II

 [quote]   ---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.

  

 Ed Moody II

 [quote]   ---

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I’m looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but can’t tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know what he prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.  

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II

 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

     

Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.  

    

   

    

Ed Moody II  

  [quote] [b]

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

leinad(at)direcway.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

Gary,

 Nice work.  There's been a lot of talk about  using a better material.  Well here's one more.  Consider using  masonite or MDF.  I made my set of dies from a combination of 3/4" thick  fiberboard and 1/4" masonite.   These materials provide a few  advantages.  I did all my flanging with these and they showed no ware and  tear.   It's hard and there is no grain.   Best of all, it's  cheap compared to plywood.   I bought a 4x8 sheet of the 3/4  fiberboard for under 10 dollars.  I made all my form blocks and dies from  that sheet, with exception of the form for the firewall that I had already made  from plywood.

 I looked into these materials when someone on this  list suggested using the plastic wood now available for deck materials. I  like the idea, but I found that these were very expensive.    

 Dan

 [quote]   ---

J2j3h4(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

I'm not planning to leave the wood in contact with the aluminum for very  long.  I figure that the short contact time will save me from having to use  an acid metal prep. 

  

 Jim

  

  

 In a message dated 9/3/2006 10:54:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  dredmoody(at)cox.net writes:

 [quote]   Don't feel bad. At one time or another, all men spend some time thinking    about pressure-treated pine. It's just a phase that you are going through. In    the end, you will come to the realization that if pressure treated wood    requires the use of specially coated screws so that your fence or deck does    not fall apart in a couple of years, then it probably isn't a good material    to use to squeeze aircraft aluminum into shape. There now, take a deep    breath.... feel better?

    

   Ed Moody II

   [quote]     ---

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

No need to apologize, Kevin. We had it coming…but if it could be determined that those were Russian Plywood trees, we might have a clue where Bigfoot lives!  

   

Gary Boothe 

 Cool, CA 

 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 

 Tail done, wings done, working on c-section   

Do not archive…  

   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds

 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:17 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

   

I’m looking at the video of Bigfoot carrying the scothch-brite, but can’t tell if the trees behind him are softwood or hardwood. Anyone know what he prefers for flanging dies? . . . .My apologies to everyone.  

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II

 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:03 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies  

  

     

Pine and spruce are soft but birch is fairly hard.  

    

   

    

Ed Moody II  

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        [quote][b]

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

He ain't dumb - he uses his GPS to locate those  synthetic trees that are strong and stable for his dies, and only scotchbrites  the surfaces that don't contact the AL.

  

 Do not archive.

 [quote]   ---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: Gary's Cheap Flanging Dies

He's not in Louisiana.... he's got too much fur for  our heat and besides, Cajuns would have turned him into jambalaya long  ago.

  

 Ed Moody II

 [quote]   ---

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