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Skydrive on/off control

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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Does anyone know of an inline valve, controlled electrically, for 

controlling the coolant flow in the Skydrive carb heater ?

I know they exist for central heating systems, but are the wrong voltage.



thanks in advance,



Karl

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl,

Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having a 

switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix!

Cheers,

Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



Ph +64 3 3515166

Mobile 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Tim,



That is what I thought, but it is actually not true.

When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a grass 

field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to boil 

in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at the clear 

carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will see the fuel 

bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start your engine at 

this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by putting a clamp on 

the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent educated me 

about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added collar moves the 

carburator further from the engine, it contributes to vibration problems.

And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the 

combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you 

wouldn't know.



Best regards,



karl



[quote]From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200






Karl,

Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having a 

switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix!

Cheers,

Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



Ph +64 3 3515166

Mobile 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

william(at)wrmills.plus.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl,

I agree with you, but the standard Skydrive mechanical valve works very well 

without trouble and can be operated by a standard wire choke cable available 

from any motor factor.

Hope that helps,

William

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

William,



Yes, I may have to resort to that, but couldn't find details on the Skydrive 

website. I just didn't fancy running yet more hose into and out of the 

cockpit. I'll check with Skydrive tomorrow.



Regards,



Karl



do not archive





[quote]From: "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:13:18 +0100




<william(at)wrmills.plus.com>



Karl,

I agree with you, but the standard Skydrive mechanical valve works very 

well without trouble and can be operated by a standard wire choke cable 

available from any motor factor.

Hope that helps,

William

---

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl,

I use the Skydrive system on my 912-S and leave it on all the time. We 

haven't had any problems here in the USA mid south at 95 + degrees all 

summer. I have very long taxies at MQY. When the motors hot and I need 

to re-start, a little throttle as soon as you crank it and it takes off 

every time.

Just my two cents,

Regards,

Jeff

A258 Gold Rush 33.5 hrs of flying off the 40 and all the bugs seem to 

be gone 

On Sep 3, 2006, at 6:09 AM, Karl Heindl wrote:

[quote] 

 Tim,

 That is what I thought, but it is actually not true.

 When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a 

 grass field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the 

 fuel to boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by 

 looking at the clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and 

 you will see the fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be 

 able to start your engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've 

 proven it by putting a clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. 

 The local Rotax agent educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims 

 that because the added collar moves the carburator further from the 

 engine, it contributes to vibration problems.

 And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the 

 combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you 

 wouldn't know.

 Best regards,

 karl

> From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>

> Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

> To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

> Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200

>

> 

>

> Karl,

> Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. 

> Having a switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix!

> Cheers,

> Tim

> Tim Ward

> 12 Waiwetu Street,

> Fendalton,

> Christchurch, 8052

> New Zealand

>

> Ph +64 3 3515166

> Mobile 021 0640221

> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

> ---

william(at)wrmills.plus.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl,

My valve is mounted on the front of the starboard foot-well at the top, so 

that the cable runs across the top of the foot-well and through the firewall 

to the same sub-panel on the instrument panel used for the choke control. 

The sub-panel is left behind when the instrument panel is removed from the 

A/C for ease.  No need to run the pipes through the firewall.

Best wishes,

William

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

William,



Many thanks, I'll do same.



Karl



do not archive

[quote]From: "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:17:33 +0100




<william(at)wrmills.plus.com>



Karl,

My valve is mounted on the front of the starboard foot-well at the top, so 

that the cable runs across the top of the foot-well and through the 

firewall to the same sub-panel on the instrument panel used for the choke 

control. The sub-panel is left behind when the instrument panel is removed 

from the A/C for ease.  No need to run the pipes through the firewall.

Best wishes,

William

---

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl,

That's interesting, many thanks. Firstly I do have the Rotax 912S.

Now I have seen evidence of fuel stains in the Plenum chamber and flowing up 

the vent pipes. THAT MUST BE WHERE THE FUEL SMELL IS COMING FROM! The plenum 

chamber has drain holes (for water) so it must be leaking out of those. I 

have my Plenum chamber secured from underneath to the engine mount, (Classic 

Monowheel engine mount) to help with the vibration problem. I that case I 

think I will do as you have done and fix a cable to the on/off switch.

This hopefully will fix the fuel smell problem.



Cheers,



Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



Ph +64 3 3515166

Mobile 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Jeff,

Do you have any fuel smell problems?

Cheers



Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



Ph +64 3 3515166

Mobile 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Jeff,



Maybe it's just me, but it is supposed to be a known  problem. I definitely 

had trouble starting a hot engine, and the fuel is boiling or very hot. 

Another heat source I would like to address is the exhaust pipes right 

underneath the carburators. Maybe Graham S. can make a heatshield kit out of 

that firewall material of his ?

I haven't seen the current Skydrive kit, maybe they made the collar smaller 

? I will be much happier with a valve, as I still have the option to leave 

it on during the colder seasons.

I didn't just install the carb heater, I have been using it for 5 years now.



Karl



[quote]From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:09:25 -0500






Karl,

I use the Skydrive system on my 912-S and leave it on all the time. We 

haven't had any problems here in the USA mid south at 95 + degrees all 

summer. I have very long taxies at MQY. When the motors hot and I need to 

re-start, a little throttle as soon as you crank it and it takes off every 

time.

Just my two cents,

Regards,

Jeff

A258 Gold Rush 33.5 hrs of flying off the 40 and all the bugs seem to be 

gone 



On Sep 3, 2006, at 6:09 AM, Karl Heindl wrote:



>

>Tim,

>

>That is what I thought, but it is actually not true.

>When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a grass 

>field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to 

>boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at the 

>clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will see the 

>fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start your 

>engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by putting a 

>clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent 

>educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added 

>collar moves the carburator further from the engine, it contributes to 

>vibration problems.

>And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the 

>combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you 

>wouldn't know.

>

>Best regards,

>

>karl

>

>>From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>

>>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

>>To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

>>Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

>>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200

>>

>>

>>

>>Karl,

>>Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having a 

>>switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix!

>>Cheers,

>>Tim

>>Tim Ward

>>12 Waiwetu Street,

>>Fendalton,

>>Christchurch, 8052

>>New Zealand

>>

>>Ph +64 3 3515166

>>Mobile 021 0640221

>>ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

>>---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Karl

when my new shed is active I might look at that. Won't be for a month or 

two, too much dust flying round here just now. The new small shed is 

full of things hiding from those that want to throw them away =-O

I do tend to hoard things though, I'm forced to admit

Graham



Karl Heindl wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jeff,



 Maybe it's just me, but it is supposed to be a known  problem. I 

 definitely had trouble starting a hot engine, and the fuel is boiling 

 or very hot. Another heat source I would like to address is the 

 exhaust pipes right underneath the carburators. Maybe Graham S. can 

 make a heatshield kit out of that firewall material of his ?



 Karl

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Sorry about that, Tim. I assumed that commercial pilots wouldn't put up with 

anything less than a 914.

do not archive





[quote]From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Skydrive on/off control

Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:41:15 +1200






Karl,

That's interesting, many thanks. Firstly I do have the Rotax 912S.

Now I have seen evidence of fuel stains in the Plenum chamber and flowing 

up the vent pipes. THAT MUST BE WHERE THE FUEL SMELL IS COMING FROM! The 

plenum chamber has drain holes (for water) so it must be leaking out of 

those. I have my Plenum chamber secured from underneath to the engine 

mount, (Classic Monowheel engine mount) to help with the vibration problem. 

I that case I think I will do as you have done and fix a cable to the 

on/off switch.

This hopefully will fix the fuel smell problem.



Cheers,



Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



Ph +64 3 3515166

Mobile 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Tim,

Actually I do smell fuel once in a while. I don't remember seeing any 

fuel stains but I may take the cowl off and look closer now. I have a 

small fuel valve that I didn't use so maybe that would work for turning 

the hot water off. Would now like to hear what others have used for the 

job.

Jeff

A258. Flying off the 40 & maybe another bug just found me. Thanks Guys 

;(



On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Tim Ward wrote:



[quote] 



 Jeff,

 Do you have any fuel smell problems?

 Cheers



 Tim

 Tim Ward

 12 Waiwetu Street,

 Fendalton,

 Christchurch, 8052

 New Zealand



 Ph +64 3 3515166

 Mobile 021 0640221

 ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 ---

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Jeff,

You and I seem to have similar situations, though under slightly 

different circumstances.  I used to smell fuel, on occasion, when the 

engine was still breaking in.  CHT was running at 275 and I could really 

tell the engine was warmish.  Also noticed fuel stains under the air 

box, where the drains were.  Starboard carb seemed to be getting the 

bulk of the heat from the exhaust, so I fabricated a small stainless 

shield that I bolted up to the head, just over the exhaust pipe.  That 

solved the heat problem for the carb.  Once the engine was broken in 

(approximately 100 hours) the CHT  stabilized at around 220.  Oddly 

enough, the fuel smell went away, too.  I do not have the skydrive units 

on Baby Blue...

Jeff - Baby Blue

210 hours - Guess I'm waiting for the regulator to go, now... 

JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

[quote] 

 Tim,

 Actually I do smell fuel once in a while. I don't remember seeing any 

 fuel stains but I may take the cowl off and look closer now. I have a 

 small fuel valve that I didn't use so maybe that would work for 

 turning the hot water off. Would now like to hear what others have 

 used for the job.

 Jeff

 A258. Flying off the 40 & maybe another bug just found me. Thanks Guys ;(

 On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Tim Ward wrote:

> 

>

> Jeff,

> Do you have any fuel smell problems?

> Cheers

>

> Tim

> Tim Ward

> 12 Waiwetu Street,

> Fendalton,

> Christchurch, 8052

> New Zealand

>

> Ph +64 3 3515166

> Mobile 021 0640221

> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

> ---

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Hi,



   We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and have had the Skydrive carb heat

since first flight, 5 years and 450 hours ago.  At first we had the carb

heat on all the time, but after a year or so installed the supplied

water valve because of problems with hot starts in warm weather.

Installing the valve (and turning off carb heat during the taxi back)

cured our hot start problem.

   Once we had the valve installed, we were able to carefully measure

time to climb as a check of any lost performance due to carb heat on vs

off.  There was no measurable difference in climb performance.

   Also, once we had the ability to fly with carb heat off, we found

that we could get carb icing, on the ground and in the air, even on what

seemed fairly moderate days.  When the carb temp came down to a few

degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility.  Turning on

the carb heat water cured the rough running in seconds.

   As others have mentioned, we mounted our carb heat water valve on top

of the port side foot well, with relatively short water tubing runs to

the valve, and ran a stiff wire through the firewall for control from

the cockpit.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

--

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: Skydrive on/off control

Hi Duncan,



We did not have carb ice very often, and as I recall, the carb temp was

always just a few degrees above 0 degC.  I am not an expert in this

area, but I believe you are referring to air temp when you say 20C.  The

carb temp (at certain throttle settings) associated with icing would be

close to zero due to the venturi effect.  We can see the carb temp

change considerably (5+ degC delta, as I recall) as we go from cruise

power to idle, for example.  The carb temp gauge we are using is the one

that came with our Skydrive kit, and plugs into the supplied heating

block.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

--

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