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FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

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Chris In Marshfield

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

Hello all,



I've been following Tim Olson's RV-10 project for a while and he uses a GNS-480 in his panel in addition to the built-in GPS of the Pinpoint GADHRS.  From what I read, the 480 pretty much sits dormant in the background while the built-in GPS does most of the work.  Presumably, the 480 is there because it's the only IFR-certified GPS of the Garmin line (and in his plane).  Presuming someone was to use the FreeFlight GPS option to meet the IFR requirements, would one be losing any functionality that the 480 offers?  



I've gone through a majority of the feature/operation videos on the Chelton site, and the system is really thorough in its navigation options, flight planning, etc.  Would a pilot miss not having a 480 in the panel by relying on the Chelton, or are they similarly capable?  



I do see the benefit of having the 480 as a GPS backup in case of EFIS/FreeFlight failure, to be sure, but thought I'd pose the question.  I suppose there's always the tried-and-true radio navigation as well 



Thanks and best regards,

Chris

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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI

jrichard(at)ccser.com
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

Chris



 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I've learned building my Lancair Legacy and going around with

Direct to Avionics (Chelton rep to experimental) the Chelton system does not
	


interface with the Garmin 480....only the SL-30/SL-40 via serial bus.  Most

panels I see at Lancair that are using the Chelton system rely on the

FreeFlight GPS and flight planning is done in the Chelton user interface.  A

480 or 430 is back-up only.  Seems like a bit of a waste.  The Chelton can

not even display nav data (like localizer / glide slope or VOR) from the

480.  



I love the 480 and have decided to go with Grand Rapids interfacing to the

480 and SL-30.  Flight planning will be done on the 480 and the Grand Rapids

unit will display the whole flight path with the current leg colored

magenta.  HSI will show both Nav 1 and Nav2 in different colors.  And with

Chelton, I also miss the "pan".  On the 480, you can scroll ahead of your

current location to look at airspace ahead or on either side of your flight

path and get data on "nearest" waypoints to the pan location.  



The Chelton screen is beautiful with very high resolution and good sunlight

visibility.  It's nice to have all these choices. 



Regards



John Richardson

Spokane WA



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mlas(at)cox.net
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

Chris,



Just to clear up something John wrote that is incorrect about the

statement " The Chelton can not even display nav data (like localizer /

glide slope or VOR) from the480."  This statement is incorrect.  The 480

has the same output provided on the SL-30/SL-40 located on page D-23 if

the installation manual.  The 480 was the UPS CNX-80 designed by UPS the

same folks that created the SL30/40.  So in short you can display and

control navigation function for ILS/LOC/VOR on the Chelton through a

serial data bus.



Mike Larkin  



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mlas(at)cox.net
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

Chris,



Here is a note from Chelton and Direct from the latest news letter about

using the GPS as a standalone system.



The FreeFlight receiver coupled with your Chelton EFIS allows for

LNAV/VNAV GPS WAAS approaches and IFR/G designation, allowing for

stand-alone IFR navigation.  When the 1101 is present, the Chelton

software provides the integrity monitoring necessary for TSO-C145/146.

The FreeFlight 1101 and Chelton EFIS-SV work together, providing the

same functional requirements as the certified Chelton FlightLogic EFIS.



Mike Larkin



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Chris In Marshfield

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Re: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

Many thanks for info Mike.  I think a FreeFlight GPS and a couple of SL30s ought to be the perfect combination and take up a heck of a lot less space on the panel.



Many thanks for your thoughts.



Best regards,

Chris

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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI

jrichard(at)ccser.com
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

One last go-around on the Chelton system interfacing with the Garmin 480.  



I spoke with Josh at Direct to Avionics.  Josh works with Peter and Kirk to

answer technical questions at Direct to avionics and they sell the Chelton

"Sport" and Chelton "Pro" systems to the experimental aircraft market.  



Josh confirmed the Chelton "Sport" system does not interface with the Garmin

480, even though it has a serial bus like the SL-30. Complete SL-30

functionality is not available on the 480 serial bus (unfortunately).  As an

alternative, the Garmin 430 can partially interface with the Chelton "Sport"

via an ARINC 429 converter.  I'm not sure what functionality is missing when

interfacing with a Garmin 430.  



The Chelton "Pro" system does interface completely with the Garmin 480.

I've seen this system and it is very impressive.  When connected to a 480

and SL-30, the "Pro" HSI shows two bearing pointers for  Nav1 and Nav2 with

switching to select between Nav1 or Nav2 for the CDI and OBS.  The "Pro"

system is about twice the price of the "Sport" system.  I only saw one Pro

system at Lancair avionics and it was going into a Lancair IV turbine

aircraft.  



In my previous discussions regarding interfacing a Chelton system with the

Garmin 480, I was referring to the Chelton "Sport" system which most

experimental aircraft builders choose if they go for a Chelton system. I

believe it's price is around $25K (two displays) and the "Pro" system is

around $50K.  



Hope this level of detail helps.  I appreciate everyone's feedback.  



Thanks



John Richardson

Lancair Legacy builder

Spokane WA



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mlas(at)cox.net
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options

John,



This is true for full function as listed in the Chelton Pro operator

manual, but you still get basic function with the 480 such as auto tune

and VOR/LOC/GS from ONE radio on the RS232 if selected.  You will not

get function like the pro on two radios independently.  The 480 does put

out on a 232 line the data for VOR/LOC/GS.  I'm not sure if the 480

provides you with TIS data from the GTX-330.  I just looked it up and

the information in Appendix B of the Garmin 480 installation manual

states the function I listed.  To be clear, the Pro system can

differentiate between multiple input and outputs for VOR and auto

tuning, the sport can not.  If you are only using ONE external radio for

these functions, based on what I just read the Garmin 480 does support

these ASCII Binary data lines like the SL30 and 40.  My personal

experience with the CNX-80 uses RS232 for this information with the

MX-20 but I think that it uses a proprietary language when talking to

the MX20.  



Mike 



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