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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Now that I'm removing my single carb., points ignition, no provision, belt drive 503 prop remover, I'm looking for some experienced advice...
My Firestar is a 5 rib wing, early bird... Has anyone experienced going from a 447 to the single carb., points ignition 503, or visa verse?... What's the bottom line in performance loss/gain?... I realize that there is approximately 7 HP difference, but the 447 weighs less... I also realize that the 447 consumes less fuel, so theoretically I wouldn't need to carry as much fuel, but real life is that I'd still fill the tank..
I like the performance with the SC 503 and I don't really need a 503 DCDI, but I definitely want a gearbox...
Thanx...
David
--
ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... [quote][b]
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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David, Here's a suggestion I picked up from a shop with 25+ years in Rotax sales and service. If your 503 is running, leave it on the airplane and advertise it for sale. A prospective buyer will be able to see and hear it run. The shop owner claimed he averaged 20% more in sale price doing this rather than just having an engine on a stand.
Rick
On 9/9/06, David Lehman <david(at)davidlehman.net (david(at)davidlehman.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Now that I'm removing my single carb., points ignition, no provision, belt drive 503 prop remover, I'm looking for some experienced advice...
My Firestar is a 5 rib wing, early bird... Has anyone experienced going from a 447 to the single carb., points ignition 503, or visa verse?.. What's the bottom line in performance loss/gain?... I realize that there is approximately 7 HP difference, but the 447 weighs less... I also realize that the 447 consumes less fuel, so theoretically I wouldn't need to carry as much fuel, but real life is that I'd still fill the tank...
I like the performance with the SC 503 and I don't really need a 503 DCDI, but I definitely want a gearbox...
Thanx...
David
--
ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... | Quote: |
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Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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David, Here's a suggestion I picked up from a shop with 25+ years in Rotax sales and service. If your 503 is running, leave it on the airplane and advertise it for sale. A prospective buyer will be able to see and hear it run. The shop owner claimed he averaged 20% more in sale price doing this rather than just having an engine on a stand.
Rick
On 9/9/06, David Lehman <david(at)davidlehman.net (david(at)davidlehman.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Now that I'm removing my single carb., points ignition, no provision, belt drive 503 prop remover, I'm looking for some experienced advice...
My Firestar is a 5 rib wing, early bird... Has anyone experienced going from a 447 to the single carb., points ignition 503, or visa verse?.. What's the bottom line in performance loss/gain?... I realize that there is approximately 7 HP difference, but the 447 weighs less... I also realize that the 447 consumes less fuel, so theoretically I wouldn't need to carry as much fuel, but real life is that I'd still fill the tank...
I like the performance with the SC 503 and I don't really need a 503 DCDI, but I definitely want a gearbox...
Thanx...
David
--
ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... | Quote: |
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ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
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Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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[quote="jindoguy(at)gmail.com"]David, Here's a suggestion I picked up from a shop with 25+ years in Rotax sales and service. If your 503 is running, leave it on the airplane and advertise it for sale. A prospective buyer will be able to see and hear it run. The shop owner claimed he averaged 20% more in sale price doing this rather than just having an engine on a stand.
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Rick...
Makes a lot of sense, but my prop/hub broke off in flight and I don't know what gopher/rattlesnake has it now... I ran the engine, sans prop, in the field after I landed and it ran fine, but that only proves that it didn't sieze, not what it will do under load...
Thanx for the advice...
DVD
do not archive
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HShack(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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In a message dated 9/9/2006 7:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, david(at)davidlehman.net writes:
| Quote: | | My Firestar is a 5 rib wing, early bird... Has anyone experienced going from a 447 to the single carb., points ignition 503, or visa verse?... What's the bottom line in performance loss/gain?... |
There was a guy at our field who had a bird like yours but with a 377; the pilot was about 190 & he could outclimb FS II's with a 503 DCDI. I would go with the 447.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
[quote][b]
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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[quote="HShack(at)aol.com"]In a message dated 9/9/2006 7:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, david(at)davidlehman.net writes:
| Quote: | | My Firestar is a 5 rib wing, early bird...� Has anyone experienced going from a 447 to the single carb., points ignition 503, or visa verse?... What's the bottom line in performance loss/gain?... |
There was a guy at our field who had a bird like yours but with a 377;� the pilot was about 190 & he could outclimb FS II's with a 503 DCDI. I would go with the 447.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Thanx Howard, it kinda makes sense... I'm leaning towards the 447...
DVD
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John Jung
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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David,
I have flown a 377 Firestar and a 503 Firestar II DI with one and two carbs. Also, a 447 on another plane. After having a DI Rotax, I would not like to go back to single ignition. The DI just runs better, less chance of a stall on decent, lack of throttle lag on a go around, tolerates a rich mixture at high altitude, etc. I would run the 503 and just not exceed the VNE. Also, the 503 can be economical if you don't use all the power. I once flew home from Oshkosh with an MXII at 45 mph and only used 2.25 g/h, and that was in a heaver Firestar II.
John
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John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Thanx John...
Obviously you know of what you speak...
David
On 9/10/06, John Jung <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com (jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com (jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com)>
David,
I have flown a 377 Firestar and a 503 Firestar II DI with one and two carbs. Also, a 447 on another plane. After having a DI Rotax, I would not like to go back to single ignition. The DI just runs better, less chance of a stall on decent, lack of throttle lag on a go around, tolerates a rich mixture at high altitude, etc. I would run the 503 and just not exceed the VNE. Also, the 503 can be economical if you don't use all the power. I once flew home from Oshkosh with an MXII at 45 mph and only used 2.25 g/h, and that was in a heaver Firestar II.
John
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Readtopic.php?p=60786#60786"> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60786#60786
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ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... [quote][b]
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planecrazzzy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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Hey David,
I just got a small catalog from LEAF today....
There still having the Engine Trade-in Program....
It does say....For ALL 2 stroke engines...their talkin $750 off the new
engine.... ( ends Dec 31st 2006 )
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Thanx Mike...
There's a local guy that has a 503 DCI with ground run time only that's going to put a 4 stroke on his Ridge Runner... Looks like I'll end up with the 503... Bought a 66x34 Tennessee wood prop off another local guy last night...
Thanx again...
David
On 9/13/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--
ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... [quote][b]
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_________________
ô¿ô
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."
--- George Bernard Shaw |
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planecrazzzy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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Sounds like your gonna have that bird "set-up" for some GOOD flying...
and for a Loooong time.....
and now it'll fold and slide into your garage like it should...
11.5 hrs and 2 emergency landings.....after you get the new set-up
it'll probly take some time getting used to "not worrying"....
Well , a little is OK....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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David, Make sure you find out any changes made to jetting or timing during
ground run, just in case, so you can put them back to the stock settings. Be
sure and pull the exhaust and look for evidence of seizure. You probably
know the drill, anyway. Sounds like a great deal to get you back in the air
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Steve Boetto
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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David, did I miss something or is this an original Firestar vs a Firestar II. I did not think that the cage was designed to handle a 503.
steve
[quote][b]
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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I think the reason I'm still alive is that I never stop worrying...
DVD
do not archive...
On 9/13/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--
ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... [quote][b]
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_________________
ô¿ô
"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."
--- George Bernard Shaw |
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Rick...
Thanx for the thoughts... I've been with this engine since he got it, so I know it's pedigree...
DVD
On 9/13/06, Richard Girard <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | David, Make sure you find out any changes made to jetting or timing during ground run, just in case, so you can put them back to the stock settings. Be sure and pull the exhaust and look for evidence of seizure. You probably know the drill, anyway. Sounds like a great deal to get you back in the air. Congrats.
Rick
On 9/13/06, David Lehman <david(at)davidlehman.net (david(at)davidlehman.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Thanx Mike...
There's a local guy that has a 503 DCI with ground run time only that's going to put a 4 stroke on his Ridge Runner... Looks like I'll end up with the 503... Bought a 66x34 Tennessee wood prop off another local guy last night...
Thanx again...
David
On 9/13/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" < planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)>
Hey David,
I just got a small catalog from LEAF today....
There still having the Engine Trade-in Program....
It does say....For ALL 2 stroke engines...their talkin $750 off the new
engine.... ( ends Dec 31st 2006 )
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
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ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink (window,event,this)"> nk" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://wiki.matronics.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one".. [quote][b]
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Good Morning Steve...
You're correct this is an original Firestar... There have been posts from credible individuals that the 447 is max engine for the original F/S... It's my understanding that it's not a cage limitation, but rather a "5 rib wing" limitation... I also know that there are a considerable number of 503 powered original F/Ss and apparently when they're flown with due consideration, it's an OK combination... Personally, I installed 850x6 tires so that I can operate off from gravel bars, forest clearings, etc.... I have no desire to go fast, but I want the power to "pull out of the hole"... I also intend to install my floats some day and the extra power from the 503 will help me get off from some of the higher altitude Sierra lakes...
Regards...
David
do not archive
On 9/14/06, N27SB(at)aol.com (N27SB(at)aol.com) <N27SB(at)aol.com (N27SB(at)aol.com)> wrote: | Quote: | David, did I miss something or is this an original Firestar vs a Firestar II. I did not think that the cage was designed to handle a 503.
steve
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planecrazzzy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: The 503 Blues... |
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Hi Dave,
Floats too ?
More power and weight on those 5 rib wings....?
Seems like something might bite you eventually , Got a BRS ?
Just thinkin out loud...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
.
.
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| David.Lehman wrote: |
but I want the power to "pull out of the hole"... I also intend to install my floats some day and the extra power from the 503 will help me get off from some of the higher altitude Sierra lakes...
Regards...
David
do not archive
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? "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...
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David.Lehman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: The 503 Blues... |
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Heck no Mike!... Anybody knows that adding a BRS to a 503 and floats on 5 rib wings would be too much weight!... 
DVD
On 9/16/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Dave,
Floats too ?
More power and weight on those 5 rib wings....?
Seems like something might bite you eventually , Got a BRS ?
Just thinkin out loud...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
.
.
.
|
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ô¿ô "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"... [quote][b]
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ô¿ô
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