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RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

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thilo.kind(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Hi everybody,



this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will 

place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my 

first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH 

601 HDS.



Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak 

for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?



Thanks



Thilo Kind

seiders(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Against: $8000.

  For: mega hours labor/headaches saved, alignment problems for fuse, 

wings, and wing'fuse fit are a non issue. No fixtures required. Prepunched 

panels/skins a big help, but QB still worth it in my opinion.



Dick (Quickbuild RV6A completed and flying, and helping on a Quickbuild 7A).

do not archive

At 04:03 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi everybody,



this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and 

will place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't 

be my first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a 

Zodiac CH 601 HDS.



Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) 

speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?



Thanks



Thilo Kind

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

I must be building my RV wrong. I'm building slo-build and I'm having a

BLAST!  (g)



If I'd gone QB, I wouldn't have known what I was missing (wcept flying

really soon, of course)



Bob Collins

St. Paul, Minn.

RV Builder's Hotline (why sure, it's free)

http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/



[quote] --

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Bob Collins wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I must be building my RV wrong. I'm building slo-build and I'm having a

 BLAST!  (g)

 

 If I'd gone QB, I wouldn't have known what I was missing (wcept flying

 really soon, of course)


	




Bob, I don't know that you would be flying *that* much sooner. 



What is often overlooked in QB vs standard discussions is that the QB 

only saves time during construction of the airframe. Once the airframe 

is looking sorta like an airplane, the project is only about half 

finished and at that point the QB and standard builder are faced with 

identical completion tasks.



Keep in mind that a 50% savings of QB time over standard airframe build 

ends up only representing a 25% difference in total project build time. 

And the new, highly evolved kits are blurring these distinctions even more.



There are valid reasons for going with a QB, but it seems the advantages 

in build time are often misunderstood and overstated.



Sam Buchanan

Doug Gray

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

How about the increased probability of completion!

No so much a problem for a second time builder I should imagine.

Doug Gray



On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 22:03 +0200, Thilo Kind wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi everybody,

 

 this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will 

 place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my 

 first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH 

 601 HDS.

 

 Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak 

 for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?

 

 Thanks

 

 Thilo Kind 

 


	


 	  Quote:

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

On 10 Sep 2006, at 16:03, Thilo Kind wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time  

 saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard  

 kit?


	


Some builders like to make deviations from the plans to add custom  

features.  Many of these types of mods are more difficult on a QB  

kit, as they would require significant disassembly and rework.



Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

 	  Quote: 	
		   How about the increased probability of completion!


	


FWIW, of the "stalled out" kits that I'm aware of, the majority are QB. 

Yes, I know that's one guy's generalization, so take it with a grain of 

salt...but I'm calling it like I see it.



At least the slow build guys are moving along steadily...if not "quickly."



do not archive

)_( Dan

RV-7 N714D

http://www.rvproject.com

http://www.weathermeister.com

fstringham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

one man or gals poison is anothers piece of cake. I choose the slow build 

because 8K on my retirement $$$$$ would really help with the panel. I have 

enjoyed every minute of it....well maybe not every minute but it has been 

fun, a great learning adventure, and even the tanks were ok!

It is kind of like nose rollers vs tail dragger...... REAL MEN 

___________you choose______!

I have had the opportunity to work on a quick build  7 and the work on the 

fuse and wing are first rate.

Frank (at) SGU and SLC

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:56:59 -0400

Against: $8000.

  For: mega hours labor/headaches saved, alignment problems for fuse, 

wings, and wing'fuse fit are a non issue. No fixtures required. Prepunched 

panels/skins a big help, but QB still worth it in my opinion.

Dick (Quickbuild RV6A completed and flying, and helping on a Quickbuild 

7A).

do not archive

At 04:03 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:

>

>

>Hi everybody,

>

>this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and 

>will place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't 

>be my first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a 

>Zodiac CH 601 HDS.

>

>Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) 

>speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?

>

>Thanks

>

>Thilo Kind

>

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

The other thing I like about the slo-build. Every night when I close the

garage door and just before turning out the light, I look back at this thing

and I say, "*I* built that; every rivet. (OK, except the main wing spar). I

can't tell you how cool that feels.

(http://stirringsfromtheemptynest.blogspot.com/2006/07/right-here-provenzani

.html). It's my $8,000 feeling.



On the other hand, I know a guy who started his 7A just a little before I

did and I think he went QB all the way. Five years later, he's about as far

ahead of me -- not too much -- as we were five years ago. He had to do a QB,

not because he wanted to get in the air fast -- although maybe he did -- but

his lifestyle didn't allow for a slow build.



Bottom line? Like so many things in RV building, there's no *right* answer.



Bob

St. Paul, Minn.

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

bo124rs(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Just a quick note, I had my slow build pre punched 7 fuse at quick build 

state in 3.5 weeks.  Seemed like a lot of money to save 3.5 weeks:-)  Now 

the wings.......different story.



Dana Overall

Richmond, KY i39

RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"

O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4

http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html

do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:03:23 +0200






Hi everybody,



this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will 

place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my 

first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH 

601 HDS.



Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak 

for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?



Thanks



Thilo Kind




	


_________________________________________________________________

Rick Galati

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Lake St. Louis MO.

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Hi Thilo,



By taking the cost and (so called) time savings equation out of the mix, your question pushes the standard/quickbuild decision into the subjective realm of personal preference.  The few exceptions to that are if you ultimately seek to build a Grand Champion contender requiring an extra measure of craftsmanship that is not built into the quickbuild kits.  Even Van concedes that quickbuild sheet metal work is perfectly acceptable structurally but can fall short of perfection when judged cosmetically.  In addition, if you are the type of builder driven to insist all internal parts be individually epoxy primed prior to fastening together, you may not be happy with the sticky, translucent wash primer the quickbuilds are equipped with.



I believe todays matched hole technology does a great deal to negate the (so-called) quickbuild time savings advantage over the standard kit.  So simple are the newer kits in advanced construction techniques that I spent more time waiting for primer to dry on the individual RV-8 empennage parts than I did scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next as was my experience on the 6A.  Believe me, the process is so advanced now it is way, way easier to build a modern RV than was prior to the days of matched hole technology.  I have developed a new found level of respect for those driven guys with the tenacity to successfully build an RV3 or -4. Anybody who is skilled enough to build a -4 can easily build an -8. Yet there are (relatively) few -8 builders with the skill set and patience to successfully build an RV4!



Finally Thilo,  I take enormous satisfaction knowing that excepting the wing spar holes, virtually every hole drilled and every rivet pounded into my 6A was produced by my own hands.  I'm constantly struck and happily reminded of that while gazing upon those long, straight rivet patterns holding the wings together while cruising along at 9500'.  That means a whole lot more to me than if the wings were mostly assembled by an anonymous overseas production worker.  Granted, that sense of satisfaction is a deeply subjective one, but it is always there and I wouldn't have it any other way.  I enjoy building as much as I enjoy flying. You have to really know what type of builder/flyer you are and let that inner knowledge speak to your ultimately personal decision as to what kit configuration to eventually settle upon.  



Rick Galati  RV-6A "Darla"  168 hours

RV-8A empennage complete

EAA Technical Counselor



 	  thilo.kind(at)gmx.net wrote: 	
		  

Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? Thanks

Thilo Kind

Al.Herron(at)Aerojet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

I’ve had no regrets about choosing the quickbuild on my -7A, especially since I’m a first-time builder.  I’m guessing it saved me up to two years of build time, not to mention that a large part of the airframe is built to a level of quality that I can’t always match.  I think it was, for me anyway, well worth the expenditure.    [quote][b]

thilo.kind(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

Hi Rick et Al,



thanks a lot for the multiple answers regarding the quick build versus 

standard. I think, I will go with a compromise and go QB wing, but the rest 

slow build. As mentioned before, I have built already one airplane and the 

building buck really good me. One thing I learned is, that you never ever 

done with the airplane. Mine is now 5 years since completion and I'm still 

working on it - not quite efeectively, mind you, than in my garage, simply 

because everybody and his brother at the airport will visit the hangar and 

talk to you...



Okay, now I need to prepare the workshop and place the order...



Later



THILO Kind

---

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard

<snip>

.. the building buck really good me....<snip> 



Maybe the quickbuild would be a good idea, Thilo.



Terry



Do not archive

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