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Chris In Marshfield
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87
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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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Hello all,
Seeing MAM's Moose for sale and reading comments on the other Rebel list related to their lack of a demo plane once it's gone had me thinking on another plane (so to speak). How does one prepare himself/herself to fly a Moose? Looks like the closest aircraft to the Moose is a C195, closely followed by a C185. I'm guessing that a C195 is going to be hard to get training in, although C185s would probably be a bit easier to find.
In speaking with some of the insurance folks, they seem to require some level of transition training in the aircraft to be flown. I'm guessing the 10-hour ballpark or so. So where does one go to get this transition training? If MAM doesn't keep an airplane around, how can you count on them for that service? And how would they charge you for that?
Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire.
It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering...
Thanks for your insight 
Best regards,
Chris
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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI |
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paxhia2(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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Hi Chris,
You didn't say how much other experience you have in general, but if your an
experienced C172 or C182 pilot and have flown a couple of different
airplanes transition will only be a big deal until after your first flight
in the Moose.
I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Maule and was never very comfortable
with it but I could get it on the ground without breaking things. The Moose
was much easier to handle than a Maule. It lands like a big Champ, just a
little faster approach.
Insurance companies have their own rules. My insurance co. wanted 25 hours
of solo before carrying passengers but the FAA wanted 40 hours so 40 hours
was the number. My guess is that if you can get a few hours in a C180, C185
or a Maule you will be fine.
Al
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Chris In Marshfield
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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Hi Al,
Thanks for the feedback.
To be honest, I have literally zero experience. I'm starting my filght training next spring/summer, and the Moose is my ultimate goal. I'm trying to plan my optimal training path so I can get the right amount of time in the proper number of aircraft. A guy's gotta have a goal
I'm not getting any younger (39 next week), so I want to be as efficient as possible if I hope to have a Moose by the time I turn 50
Thanks again for your insight.
Best regards,
Chris
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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI |
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gyoung
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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Yes, you can pay for transition training with a couple gotchas. Generallly you cannot use an experimental aircraft for compensation or hire but that does not preclude you from paying for flight instruction in one. The trick is, other than your own aircraft, who is going to loan you their baby to train in? And don't think you can get away with paying some exhorbitant rate to the instructor... that's been tried and failed. And there's really no need any longer since there is now a provision for someone to recertify their experimental aircraft for transition training. It does not have to be factory sponsored but I believe it's restricted to transition training, i.e. no primary flight instruction. The RV community has several instructors using their aircraft under this provision.
Greg Young
Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire.
It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering...
Thanks for your insight
Best regards,
Chris
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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
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ScottA
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Park City, UT
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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I was just reading in my EAA magazine about one of the guys that makes a living doing transition training in the RV – he flies about 700 hours a year I think it said. (Sept. issue, Plane talk, page 118, by Lauran Paine).
Scott
From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:41 AM
To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
Yes, you can pay for transition training with a couple gotchas. Generallly you cannot use an experimental aircraft for compensation or hire but that does not preclude you from paying for flight instruction in one. The trick is, other than your own aircraft, who is going to loan you their baby to train in? And don't think you can get away with paying some exhorbitant rate to the instructor... that's been tried and failed. And there's really no need any longer since there is now a provision for someone to recertify their experimental aircraft for transition training. It does not have to be factory sponsored but I believe it's restricted to transition training, i.e. no primary flight instruction. The RV community has several instructors using their aircraft under this provision.
Greg Young
Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire.
It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering...
Thanks for your insight
Best regards,
Chris
--------
Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI
[quote][b]
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Chris In Marshfield
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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Interestingly, I just found a good article on the EAA web site that covers it (log in required).
http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/exemptions/training_faq.asp
If one were a CFI or DPE, it would appear that one can offer his/her aircraft as a transition trainer. Primary flight instruction is not permitted unless it's your own plane, but it is permitted for transition training with the appropriate paperwork filed.
So there we go, just build two. One to offer transition training in for a fee and the other to fly for your own
Best regards,
Chris
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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI |
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Chris In Marshfield
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship |
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To clarify, you don't have to be a CFI or a DPE to rent your plane for transition training. But it seems like it would be a nice little side job if you were a CFI/DPE and there were a good number of Meese about
Best regards,
Chris
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Chris Owens
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