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Yak 52 r/h gear failure
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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Mark Jefferies YAK Uk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   We (world wide) are permitted to operate these experimental a/c

 (remember the wording “This a/c is not certificated to an international

 standard”)  and its our responsibility to operate as safely as possible

 or suffer the consequences of tightened CASA, FAA, CAA etc regulations

 not to mention litigation.


	


So what productive can come from all of this? We can stand around and

rant, implore, castigate, and otherwise make nuisances of ourselves to

our neighbors.



Instead, how about:



1. What are the recommended IRAN intervals for Yak and CJ?



2. Who is offering service to IRAN the actuators in a timely fashion in

different parts of the world?



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Gus,



Mark is right of course, lifed items should be replaced. 



On the other hand though: in the previous Sovjet Union maintenance programs

for aircraft were in first instance not set up for the sake of the aircraft,

i.e. technically required, but for the sake of employment, i.e. keeping

everybody at work......



On our Yak (RA3326K previous a.k.a LY-AQC) we do replace lifed items

according to the book though....



Hans O.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Fraser, Gus

Verzonden: maandag 23 januari 2006 15:01

Aan: 'yak-list(at)matronics.com'

Onderwerp: RE: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure






Mark raises what is almost the single most serious point with ongoing

maintenance of these aircraft, regardless of country of origin. That is the

issue of lifed items.



Now how many of you out there are riding around fat dumb and stupid with

seals over 5 years old, fuel lines that have exceeded useful life. These

aircraft have a considerable list of items that need to be changed on spec,

how many of you are doing that ?



Mark can you post a list of lifed items for Yak aircraft as I think it will

shock some subscribers. As Mark mentions it will not take long for insurance

companies to see this as an out if you don't get this stuff replaced. But as

always it is up to you if you know about it and choose to avoid it don't

complain when the insurance company says bye bye.



Personally I think this is probably the biggest safety risk to the US fleet

right now and I am sure that we will see a few more issue sin this space in

the future. As far as fuel lines go, for example, it cost very little to

have them replaced, a lot more than the cost and pain associated with an in

flight fire.



I would urge you to also look at the information that Mark put together

about Yak 52 bulletins at http://www.yakuk.com/MPD.asp 



Gus



--

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

I agree,

If it is in 6 years as opposed to 5, given a good hanger environment etc

etc, is it going to fail ? Probably not but there are aircraft operating in

the US that have been out of overhaul for getting on for 10 years, how many

of those have had all the required preventative maintenance ?



As far as this stuff goes spread the love, do one oleo this year, another

next year and so on. Otherwise the sticker shock of doing it all at once

will really hurt.



Gus 



--

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

I am amazed at just how reliable the pneumatic systems are as they

operate in a very hostile environment. High pressure air with moisture

in it is a very corrosive medium for steel. I would expect problems with

check valves, shuttle valves, and actuators on a pretty regular basis.

Air tool oil will help but not solve the problem.



Frankly, I would be uncomfortable with a 15-year-old aircraft with only

30 hours on it. I doubt that the pneumatic system was purged with dry

nitrogen in that time. You don't have gear and flap cycles to ensure

that the air-tool oil is redistributed on the walls of the actuators.

OTOH, it may be in the middle of the desert with little or no moisture

in the air.



So I come back to my previous question: what should the IRAN interval be

on pneumatic components?



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Mike Bell

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Jill at M-14P ("Carl Hays & Co.") does a great job on Yak-52 actuator overhaul. The turnaround is fast and it's done for just slightly more than the cost of the parts. The uplock actuators are pretty easy to do yourself if they only need seals, but the gear actuators are trickier. My 1993 Yak had been maintained by some name-brand Yak shops and never had the actuators or hoses touched. There was plenty of rust in some of them. Jill fixed the whole lot including the check valves. The worst part is the job to get them in and out, but it's only every 5 years, and look at the uplock actuators annually. It's cheap insurance.

_________________
Mike Bell
Elk Grove, CA
avbell2(at)comcastdotnet

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Here is Marks list of lifed items



http://www.yakuk.com/lifeitems.asp



Gus 



--

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

I would second that. I think that it was Jill who posted the best method for

inspecting the seals. With the aircraft jacked disconnect the lower

connection of the actuator and unscrew it with the top still connected to

the aircraft. That way you don't have to get up into the wing quite as much

which is a very sucky thing to have to do.



Gus 



--

Yakmech

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Melbourne Australia

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Hi Gus,



Once again I have looked at this site and others since the incident.  They are a wealth of information I agree.  

The only problem is that once again these are all bulletins etc relevant to the aircraft in that country, Issued by that country.  I know the aeroplane does not change when it goes over seas but these bulletins etc are not released here, so unless we look elsewhere or are told about it in some form or another, how are we supposed know.  Further if the bulletins are not put out by our relevant authority then we have no requirement to carry them out.... Crazy but true and further as I have already stated we dont know about them.  Unfortunately its not my job to keep up to date with what the world are doing with there aircraft i can only be guided by what the local authroity has to say. The authorities here are supposed to look at the relevant information being supplied world wide and issue directives here if they feel its relevant, and most of this information would have to come from the manufacturers of the aircraft.

One can only do what one only knows about. !!!

_________________
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your eyes turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you long to return !

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Yakmech wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The authorities here

 are supposed to look at the relevant information being supplied world

 wide and issue directives here if they feel its relevant, and most of

 this information would have to come from the manufacturers of the

 aircraft.

 One can only do what one only knows about. !!!


	


I don't know about you but I wouldn't trust the FAA here in the US to

provide me with accurate data about anything. With few exceptions they

don't seem to be able to tell their empenage from their armpit. (Well,

they do seem to get the charts right but I think that may be NOAA and

not the FAA.)



Seems it might make sense to set up a conduit to get the information

another way.



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Mick,

  

 As a retired Airline pilot with 34 years of flying  experience behind me so far, I can only laud your generous courage and concern  in sharing this experience with us. "There are those who have, and those who  will" as the old saying goes.

  

 In your case, it will probably never be known how  many of us you may have saved from having a similar or worse experience, simply  by making us double check. In  reality, we all think  "Thank you  God, that could have been me." Unless we're someone willing to test the theorem  of "Pride goeth before a fall."

  

 I've not had an accident, but I did let our airline  push my crew and I well beyond our required crew rest years ago, and was later  pretty angry at myself for letting it happen. It's amazing what you let happen  when they wear you down until you're too tired to know that you're too tired to  think straight.

  

  At the time, many airlines were doing this by  juggling numbers, printing ridiculously false projected and arrival  and departure times to conform with the letter of the law to get us to go  legally, then changing them after the fact.

  

 To make a long story short, we had lots of weather  delays and were already past our 16 hour duty day. Dispatch kept telling us to  keep going. I kept refusing, they kept assigning us new flights and calling us  at the hotel throughout the rest of the night/morning.( We didn't even get  to the hotel until 03:00 and had to find it ourselves).

  

 I didn't know that they had also begun calling my  F/O and flight engineer as well. This wore them down enough to get them to agree  to leave for an 11am flight that same day, just to get some rest when we finally  got to New York through Chicago.

  

 This was technically legal by FAA standards, but  broke our contract and the laws of good sense. I'll just have to leave myself  open to criticism here, because to put in all of the dreary details would take  too long.

  

 My belabored point in all of this being, I wrote an  article on this entitled "Sometimes the Good Guys Wear the Black Hats". In other  words, "Please Guys, don't let yourselves be talked into doing what I did just  because you're too exhausted and harassed to know better. Take the phone off the  hook, piss people off, and say "NO" in the interest of safety.

  

 My Union balked at a story where a pilot admitted  making a mistake and others were concerned that I would be criticized. I was  willing to take that risk for the greater good by holding up my less than  stellar decision so that others wouldn't have to repeat it.

  

 Oddly enough, I didn't get criticism, just about  thirty letters from fellow pilots saying that they had found themselves in  similar situations and made a better decision because my article had "given them  permission" to do so. As a side benefit, my airlines "Pilot Pushing" policies  were changed, and News Services became an interested party in stopping this  practice as well. (This was just after Americans tragic accident at Little Rock,  where crew fatigue, pilot pushing, and extended duty period was a  factor.)

  

 Again Mick, thank you for sharing and I hope that  your example leads to more of the same. That's one of the best things about the  "List". We all arm-chair quarterback, and try to pick the situation apart to  evaluate it. But it's usually nothing personal and  "You Had'da be  there."

  

 Fraternally - Val  (O.K. Guys, my turn to duck  and run for cover.)

L39parts(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Air Speed indicator?



In the long list of things that wreak havok when they fail on an airplane, I 

don't personally see how an airspeed indicator made it to number 3 on your 

list.  I'll conceed that it's not as bad as an air bottle blowing up or a 

prop disintegrating, but there are several hundred parts I think I need more 

than an A/S indicator to safely get back to terra firma.

---

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Don't comment one way or the other just reporting what the Russians say.



Gus 



--

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: Yak 52 r/h gear failure

Ron Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Air Speed indicator?

 

 In the long list of things that wreak havok when they fail on an

 airplane, I don't personally see how an airspeed indicator made it to

 number 3 on your list.  I'll conceed that it's not as bad as an air

 bottle blowing up or a prop disintegrating, but there are several

 hundred parts I think I need more than an A/S indicator to safely get

 back to terra firma.


	


I agree with you. It is the old "pitch plus power equals performance"

thing. If you know the power setting that yields a particular

performance, you are going to be there whether or not you use the ASI. I

teach my students to find out what power settings are correct for

various configurations and then the airspeed just falls into place. It

also lowers workload.



Other than a quick glance to make sure I am at gear and flap speed, I

know I really don't use the ASI much in the pattern.



But I did use my AoA a LOT when I had it. I probably need to figure out

how I am going to get one in the Project.

-- 

Brian Lloyd                         2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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