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Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

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parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

I bought the plane with a  bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge because the previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the wings more often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it designed in the first place ?? 

Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??



Thanks

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Typically used is a AN395-85 Clevis Pin.. Use a safety clip through the hole

in the pin.



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

Brett Walmsley

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 47
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

original is a pin with a safety clip.

I will use a bolt with a wing nut and safety clip.

_________________
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

The clevis pin and spring clip is the ofiginal design.



Lowell

---

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Make sure you use aircraft parts.  I would not trust a part from the

hardware store for this.  You can probably order the pins from kitfox.



--

parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Thanks everybody, I ordered the AN pins from Aircraft Spruce

Al

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:48 am Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Brett said;

 original is a pin with a safety clip.

I will use a bolt with a wing nut and safety clip.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Good thinking Brett!

 Man, I wish I thought of that. It should look a lot more secure than the existing set up.

 Cheers. Eric.

  [quote][b]

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

I hope you have thought this through . YOu say it looks more secure than  the existing set up . 

 Did you do any enginerring onthis or strees test or are you just going to  trust your { looks better judgement}. 

 I am not trying to be crass about this but it is your life when the wings  decide to change there line of flight when the pin removes itself from the root  of the attach point . 

  

 Just my thoughts and only mine no one made me say any of this .

  

 Fly safe fly low fly slow 

 John Perry

 Kitfox 2 N718PD

 582/ subbie soon

 TD / straight floats

 [quote]   ---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

At 05:39 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??


	


I'm not a big fan of the clevis, since if the tube decides to splay it will 

strip the cotter. (Even with a washer.) I use a drilled bolt / castle nut 

with the heavy duty safety clip. I guess it probably takes an additional 30 

seconds per side but positively clamps the spar tube against the fuselage 

frame.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

The bolt, castellated nut and safety pin is just as safe as the clevis pin

so I have no beef with you on using that.  I don't think it's any safer

though.  When you are swinging your wings for flight you should check the

fittings for any splaying or wear.  Even if you don't have to swing your

wings it's a good habit to check the attach points and let's not forget the

lower strut attach point.



Forces acting on the pin are shear not tensional there fore the I see

nothing to be gained by replacing the clevis pin with a bolt or vice versa

for that matter.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Just be sure not to torque it down and damage the

attachments.  It only needs to be there, not torqued.



Who was it that took off on their first flight and

after the excitement died off enough, noticed a

screwdriver in the hole instead of the pin?



It is a shear load after all.



Kurt S.



--- Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The bolt, castellated nut and safety pin is just as

 safe as the clevis pin.....


	


__________________________________________________

rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

I bought the plane with a  bolted wing/cotter pin at  the leading edge because the

      previous owner  never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the wings  more

      often and I wonder if I can use a clevis  pin or how was it designed in the first

      place  ?? 

      Can anyone tell me what to get and stay  safe ??



 I believe the Clevis pin with a safety pin is the original  and this is what mine has. I also believe it's quite safe despite the fact it  seems there is some chafing at this point and a little grease is therefore a  good thing. On my left wing there is a slight amount of play developed. Very  hard to detect moving the end of the wing but it is there. I bought some AN  bolts and castelated nuts to replace the Clevis pins as I never fold the wings  anyway. However I have never fitted them on second thought as I'm not sure which  is the best way to go. I was thinking maybe the bolts with a rubber and steel  washer each end and making sure the thread is clear of the holes in the spar was  perhaps the way to go but then I'm still thinking I'm forcing the aluminium spar  hard against the steel tube in the fuselage framework and any movement that  might still occur will grind quicker into the aluminium.

   I too would like comments on all this. I did ask  the question once before and it was pointed out that there was not any real  force at this point. In fact it was stated that you could pull that pin in  flight and the wing would stay put. I don't wish to dispute that but I and  others can't get our heads around that.

   Any discussion on this ?????

                                                Rex.

   [quote][b]

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

I hope you have thought this through . YOu say it looks more secure than the existing set up . 

 Did you do any enginerring onthis or strees test or are you just going to trust your { looks better judgement}. 

 I am not trying to be crass about this but it is your life when the wings decide to change there line of flight when the pin removes itself from the root of the attach point . 

  

 Just my thoughts and only mine no one made me say any of this .

  

 Fly safe fly low fly slow 

 John Perry

  

 Hi John.

 I will leave Brett answer the question.

  

 I was thinking it was a good idea if the same tensile strength bolt was used as the existing pin.

 And I think, as long as all the threads poke out at the bottom of the aluminum tube a washer is used and then the wing nut and the existing safety clip is used then everything should be as safe as designed but look a little more secure.

  

 Have you ever looked out the corner of the window and had deep thoughts about tonight's game when you see the little safety clip rattling around with no support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?

 Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the rattling would make me feel better 

  

 Any engineers out there?

 Eric.

  

  [quote][b]

fox5flyer(at)i-star.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Either pins or bolts (AN), it shouldn't matter, in  my opinion.  They're both plenty strong.  Your concern about the bolt  being too tight is valid though.  I'd tighten it only enough to take out  the slack and use a castle nut with cotter.  One thing that is important  though is to keep plenty of grease on the pins and the hole.  I use a que  tip to ensure the whole inside is coated with a light smear of  grease.  

  Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

There is definately force on this part in flight, but

it is pushing in, so the wing would move inward until

something else stopped it, if the pin was removed.  It

would change your sweep a little forward I suppose. 

For most of us, the butt ribs coming together would be

the next stopping point?



On the ground the wing would obviously want to swing

outward without the pin.  Nothing to stop it.



I think the lube idea is a good one to reduce the

wear.  A snug fit is the best.  A loose fit would

cause wear on whatever has the bigger hole, probably

the spar and brackets.  Lubing this will let it wear

more slowly.



Once it is worn too much, you will need spar inserts

to reinforce it, or new reinforcing fittings to

replace the old.  It is definately too much whenever

it can snap back and forth on the pin and shock the

pin in shear, in my opinion.  A little movement is not

that bad though.  It will wear eventually, but the

lube will make that time farther off.



I think the pin is fine to use.  I agree squashing

aluminum that can move with a bolt may only mask

things and make them worse.  Just one opinion off the

cuff.  If it gets too loose for a pin, fix it.



Kurt S.  S-5



--- Rex Shaw <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I believe the Clevis pin with a safety pin is the

 original and this is what mine has. I also believe

 it's quite safe despite the fact it seems there is

 some chafing at this point and a little grease is

 therefore a good thing. On my left wing there is a

 slight amount of play developed. Very hard to detect

 moving the end of the wing but it is there. I bought

 some AN bolts and castelated nuts to replace the

 Clevis pins as I never fold the wings anyway.

 However I have never fitted them on second thought

 as I'm not sure which is the best way to go. I was

 thinking maybe the bolts with a rubber and steel

 washer each end and making sure the thread is clear

 of the holes in the spar was perhaps the way to go

 but then I'm still thinking I'm forcing the

 aluminium spar hard against the steel tube in the

 fuselage framework and any movement that might still

 occur will grind quicker into the aluminium.

   I too would like comments on all this. I did ask

 the question once before and it was pointed out that

 there was not any real force at this point. In fact

 it was stated that you could pull that pin in flight

 and the wing would stay put. I don't wish to dispute

 that but I and others can't get our heads around

 that.

   Any discussion on this ?????

                                               Rex.


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

My Al cuff covers the pin and safety pin.  I can still

see them from inside, but they can't come apart or

even wear much as long as the cuff traps them

together.



I used 1/16th" self sticking rubber on the inside of

the cuff to keep it from wearing or leaking rain. 

Seems to work so far.



Now to stir up trouble:  What happens when you fold

the wings on the Vexin?  Does it fall on the tail? 

Not trying to cause trouble, but really wondering....



Kurt S.  S-5



 	  Quote: 	
		   Have you ever looked out the corner of the window

 and had deep thoughts about 

 tonight's game when you see the little safety clip

 rattling around with no 

 support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?

 Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the

 rattling would make me 

 feel better 

 

 Any engineers out there?

 Eric.


	


__________________________________________________

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

My Avid trigear falls over and leaks fuel if over 5 gallons aboard.  Ron NB 

Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:16:49 -0700 (PDT)




<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



My Al cuff covers the pin and safety pin.  I can still

see them from inside, but they can't come apart or

even wear much as long as the cuff traps them

together.



I used 1/16th" self sticking rubber on the inside of

the cuff to keep it from wearing or leaking rain.

Seems to work so far.



Now to stir up trouble:  What happens when you fold

the wings on the Vexin?  Does it fall on the tail?

Not trying to cause trouble, but really wondering....



Kurt S.  S-5



 > Have you ever looked out the corner of the window

 > and had deep thoughts about

 > tonight's game when you see the little safety clip

 > rattling around with no

 > support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?

 > Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the

 > rattling would make me

 > feel better 

 >

 > Any engineers out there?

 > Eric.



__________________________________________________






	


_________________________________________________________________

Get today's hot entertainment gossip  http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

 	  Quote: 	
		  Now to stir up trouble: What happens when you fold the wings on the 

Vexin? Does it fall on the tail? Not trying to cause trouble, but 

really wondering....


	


My Model IV-1200 would stay on the nose wheel with one wing folded 

but would sit on the tail skid with both folded.



Mike G.

N728KF

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200

Thanks,



As I thought, it will need a tail stand, or nose

weight to stay level when folded.



Kurt S.



--- Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   >Now to stir up trouble: What happens when you fold

 the wings on the 

 >Vexin? Does it fall on the tail? Not trying to

 cause trouble, but 

 >really wondering....

 

 My Model IV-1200 would stay on the nose wheel with

 one wing folded 

 but would sit on the tail skid with both folded.

 

 Mike G.

 N728KF


	


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