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Tailwheel dolly question

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parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

There was mention on using a dolly to raise the tail to a level position with the wings for folding to avoid the swing back of the wings and removal of fuel.



Does anybody have a picture or drawing of such a dolly ??



Thanks

Al

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: parahawk [alfi98596(at)yahoo.com]

 Does anybody have a picture or drawing of such a dolly ??


	


Eric and Al,

I was thinking about the front wheel of a child's bicycle with its fork. Then a Y-shaped weld to the two holes of the transverse pipe supposed to hold the Kitfox's dorsal fin. On the other side, a Y-shaped weld that has a leather strap over it to rest the fuselage.

I made a simple animated sketch of it here:



http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/tail.swf



I think that by simply lifting the tail, the wheel will pivot in place. If not, a wheel choke and a lift plus forward movement would do it. The inverse is then done to lower the tail. What do you think?



Cheers,

Michel

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Michel ,  excellent .swf there

I would add that  if would have to limit the tail height to the door height.

Once the wings are folded , then it wold be hard to lower it as the weight 

is only a guess but 150 to 200 pounds on that point .

Dave

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Michel,

    Pretty good animation.  I think you will need to put training wheels on 

the main wheel to provide side to side support.  Also, I know it was just a 

close animation but the short 45 degree bar that holds the wheel in place 

should probably be set where it will rest on the tail spring fuselage bolt. 

I made one from wood.  It's 2 foot square on the bottom with four castors. 

It's about 4 inches square at the top (pyramid shaped).  The tail spring 

fuselage bolt rest in the center of the 4" top.  I installed a safety strap 

that goes around the tailwheel spring.  Mine works great moving around the 

hanger but seems a little unstable moving across an uneven floor or dirt.

---

bearup(at)ida.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

For those who don't want to build their own, here is a tailwheel hoist on 

wheels that can be purchased.



Stan



http://www.tail-mate.com

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Michel,



I was going to say that you need a wheel that turns

back there to maneuver it.  How about 2 big casters

for rough surfaces?



Kurt S.



--- Don Smythe <dosmythe(at)cox.net> wrote:



[quote] Michel,

     Pretty good animation.  I think you will need to

 put training wheels on 

 the main wheel to provide side to side support. 

 Also, I know it was just a 

 close animation but the short 45 degree bar that

 holds the wheel in place 

 should probably be set where it will rest on the

 tail spring fuselage bolt. 

 I made one from wood.  It's 2 foot square on the

 bottom with four castors. 

 It's about 4 inches square at the top (pyramid

 shaped).  The tail spring 

 fuselage bolt rest in the center of the 4" top.  I

 installed a safety strap 

 that goes around the tailwheel spring.  Mine works

 great moving around the 

 hanger but seems a little unstable moving across an

 uneven floor or dirt.

 

 

 ---

parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel dolly question

Great animation Michael, thanks It gives me the basic idea, and I have to see what material I have laying around to use and come up with a similar functional device.

Thanks again

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

That's a handy little thing but, IMO, it would have to be modified to raise 

the tail from the spring attachment point and not the tailwheel itself.  You 

don't want  to support the tail on the wheel because it puts too much 

tension on the spring.



Don Smythe

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

I find the weight of the tail not to be too heavy until the wings are

folded.  When I put the plane on a trailer I lift the tail up onto a support

that is lashed three ways then I fold my wings.  I was thinking of getting

one of those little garden wagons ( about twice the size of a flyer)  and

permanently installing a block on it to take the tail wheel for ground

handling with the wings folded.  I would mount the block on a swivel to

allow the wagon to turn under the tail of the plane.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

For those who don't want to build their own, here is a tailwheel hoist on 

wheels that can be purchased.



Stan



http://www.tail-mate.com

  

  

 There we go Stan.That looks perfect. 

 The only thing lacking are the bigger wheels 'cause of the extra weight when the wings are folded. 

  

 All problems solved.

  

 Eric. Atlanta area.

  [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

At 10:09 AM 9/20/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  For those who don't want to build their own, here is a tailwheel hoist on

wheels that can be purchased.


	


Neat idea. Another good reason to learn how to weld.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Michel,

I am sure that that would work.  You may have to play with the angle of the

bike steering axel to make it castor correctly.  I think it should be close

to vertical.



Do you have two sets of hard points at the end of the fuselage?  If so, you

could lock it into the second set once in the "up" position.  I do think the

one wheel would be plenty stable if locked into the hard points.



I don't need one, but it is such a good idea, I may need to build one.  



Oh, one data point.  With near empty tanks, when both wings are folded on my

series 5, the weight on the tail wheel is 152 lbs, so the estimates others

have made sure seem right to me.  I did a "folded weight and balance" to

determine where the weight would be when trailering my plane to the airport

for the first flights.  It hasn't been on a trailer since.



Randy 



.           

--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:51 AM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Do you have two sets of hard points at the end of the fuselage?


	


In fact I do, Randy: the aft dorsal fin go-through tube. And you may be 

right, a second attachment point may be necessary. But - as I wrote - I 

am not in need of folding my wings. I was just playing with the idea of 

how to do it if I had to. I don't know how it is in the US but over 

here hangar room is hard to find and often one has to move several 

planes before getting out. So far, I am lucky, I can go in and out 

alone without moving a thing. But I also know my hangar is condemned an 

one day I'll need another solution.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Randy,



Someone is always getting it right here and thinking

of things the rest of us missed.  A folded weight and

balance is a great idea.



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- Randy  Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Oh, one data point.  With near empty tanks, when

 both wings are folded on my

 series 5, the weight on the tail wheel is 152 lbs,

 so the estimates others

 have made sure seem right to me.  I did a "folded

 weight and balance" to

 determine where the weight would be when trailering

 my plane to the airport

 for the first flights.  It hasn't been on a trailer

 since.

 

 Randy


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

And a fine sketch it was Michel.



You have the advantage of creating this computer stuff

faster than the rest of us.  We are just using you to

fine tune it for the list.  That happens when you

volunteer to draw!  



On mine, I run the risk of breaking the wood stringer

under the tail using a strap.  The strap would have to

run under the spring, or attach to a hard point, to

take the load when the wings are folded.



This is not a new problem.  What did WW-I planes use?



More ideas flow here freely than any place else I

know.



Kurt S.



--- Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Guys, my animated sketch was only an idea, I don't

 know at all if it will work. Currently, I don't

 need to fold my wings but ... I like to be

 prepared! 


	


__________________________________________________

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Tailwheel dolly question

Hey guys,

Why not just have something to cradle under the tailwheel ?



I like Michel' s idea but that will put alot of pressure on those dorsal fin 

attach tube  with fuel in wing tanks and even empty.



I use a 5 gal pail all the time under the tailwheel  to keep the cat off the 

plane.  I would guess that I could fold the wings like that as well but it 

is heavy to lift then.

You could just jack it up with a floor jack and roll it around  on a firm 

surface.



Hope this helps,



Dave



---

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