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Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack Rentfrow) built

all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the rear top

skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't see how

you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit was built

from circa 1999-2000 plans.



The way mine is built the plates on the stab go inside the plates on the

fuselage. The plates on the fuselage are in place and the holes through the

stab and fuse plates have been drilled and do align. With the cut-out on the

top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates

on the fuselage.



Is it built wrong? Were things done in the wrong order? Are newer kits

different? Do the cut-outs in the top skin need to be more generous?



-- Craig

vozzen

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

>>With the cut-out on the 

>top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates 

>on the fuselage. 



Craig--

Same situation on mine.   I left one of the forward mounting brackets un-riveted -- allows the stab to slip into the notch in the topskin.   You could widen the cutout, or drill out a bracket.   Might be more ideas in the archives.

--Rico, XL/3300, fuse....

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Thanks for the feedback. The downside of removing rivets is that you will

have to remove rivets whenever you need to remove the stab. That should be

infrequent but for some reason it bugs me. Maybe I'll mount the entire top

rear skin with nut-plates 



-- Craig 



--

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Not that I condone that reasoning but wouldn't it be easier to mount the 

brackets with nutplates?



Ed Moody II



---

grant.corriveau(at)TELUS.
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Hi Craig,

I had to reinstall my stab after my aircraft was transported this summer.  (I'm assuming that your rudder is removed as mine was)... I did in fact find that the cutouts in the top rear skin had to be enlarged slightly, both to allow me to drop the stab back into it's original position on the brakets, and then to get my hand into that small space to get the nuts back on... in fact, I think I resorted to using a magnet or ball of tape on the end of a wrench to be able to accomplish the nut replacement.  It was harder than when I initially built the plane - circa 1995-2001...



Grant

GHTF - 601HDs

-------------------------------

grant.corriveau(at)telus.net (grant.corriveau(at)telus.net)

---------------------------------------

The Wings Stayed On!

http://aluwings.blogspirit.com

---------------------------------------

============== 	  Quote: 	
		  

Time: 05:31:16 PM PST US 

From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> 

Subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. 



 

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> 



 

I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack Rentfrow) built 

all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the rear top 

skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't see how 

you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit was built 

from circa 1999-2000 plans. 	




  	  Quote: 	
		  	


 

 [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Well, I was "smiling".



There are a lot of rivets on the plates on the fuse. In terms of shear

strength how does a 6/32 nut-plate riveted to the fuse compare to a plain

rivet? If it was designed this way from the beginning then the plates in the

stab would extend down far enough to bolt to the fuse instead of having

separate plates in the fuse and stab.



But I'm hoping for a simpler solution or at least an explanation of how it

worked for others. I'll send a question off to Mexico, MO but I don't expect

a definitive answer.



-- Craig



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

This is what Zenith had to say about my problem.



-- Craig



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VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been riveted.  The mod in the pictures looks pretty slick.

  

 A really neat solution would be for Zenith to redesign the fiberglass piece that fits on top of the stab under the leading edge of the rudder.  Is there any reason why it couldn't extend all the way up to the rear bulkhead?  

  

 Dave Harms

 601XL/Corvair

  [quote][b]

agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Hi Guys,

   

  I have been reading all the coments about installing the Stab.  For your information, I have had my HDS in the air for about 2 years.  I have a tight fit of the rear skin and the Stab. and have had the Stab. on and off a few times with no problems.  A friend of mine just finished his HD and we put it together at the airport.  We installed the Stab. with out any problems also.  If you would like some pictures of both the HD and the HDS I could take some when I get to the airport in the next few days.

   

  AL from Oshkosh



Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:

  [quote]This is what Zenith had to say about my problem.



-- Craig



--

entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been 

riveted.  Dave Harms

601XL/Corvair

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



By notching the top fuse skin, the horizontal stab can be installed later.

As shown in the attached photo, make a cardboard template before cutting 

metal.



R. Johnson

601-HDS / Corvair

(putting the engine together)

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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

I agree with Al. It has been some time since I  installed the Horiz. Stab. on my 601HD but I don't remember it being a problem.  The upper aft skin was installed, all the attach brackets had been  installed and the fuselage had been painted as well as the stab. I have a  close fit at the cutouts too. I don't understand the installation  problem?  

  

 do not archive

  

 Jim Hoak

  

 [quote]   ---

vozzen

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

>I don't understand the installation problem? 



I think what we have here is the fact that not all stab mounting brackets are created equal -- ie, some can be slipped on, some can't.  And the ones that can't are close.



IIRC, this is also a case where the dimensions on the drawings (for the span of the brackets) have changed from the earlier plans [not the first change!!]



My suggestion:

During assembly, BEFORE riveting the mounting brackets on the fuse, figure out whether the stab can be slipped in or not.  If not, think about what you're going to have to do to remove the stab, after it's finished and painted.



Tio Rico, XL, 71.4% and holding

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

For what ever reason  some people have problems and some do  not.

  

 With the  rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where the bolt holes  align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer can not be brought in at an  rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the brackets on the fuselage. And because  the brackets on the fuselage form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level  from the rear as the brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the  fuselage.

  

 --  Craig

   [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Craig,

I've included a linked image from when my stabilizer was being fitted 

and had much the same problem.  I made my saddle reach a bit more to 

minimize the

tail skin overhang needed to get the stabilizer to slip under and on.  I 

ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to fit.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/fibrglasfairing.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudderfairing.gif



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Craig Payne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   For what ever reason some people have problems and some do not.

  

 With the rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where 

 the bolt holes align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer 

 can not be brought in at an rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the 

 brackets on the fuselage. And because the brackets on the fuselage 

 form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level from the rear as the 

 brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the fuselage.

  

 -- Craig



*

*

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to

fit.
	




Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and

the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry

about small birds getting in and building a nest in there 



-- Craig

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Seriously, we have a hell of a time with mud daubber wasps aroung here. I even made aluminum fillets for the big wasp-sized holes at the top and bottom of the trailing edge of the rudder. Anything that will reduce the weight of dirt nests that I have to haul off the runway, the better I like it.



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL / cabin



---- Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 >> I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to

 fit.

 

 Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and

 the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry

 about small birds getting in and building a nest in there 

 

 -- Craig

JAPhillipsGA(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

Ed, you might want to reconsider about those wasps and bees. If you have a bunch inside your wings flying around wouldn't they act to lighten the plane ? Depending on the power of your engine ( or lack there of ) a couple pounds might mean a lot. I can just see you banging on the sides of the plane during run up to stir them up enough to lighten the plane. Don't mind me, I spent too long flying above 10,000 feet this weekend. Best regards, Bill

 do not archive  [quote][b]

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