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Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.

 
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack Rentfrow) built
all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the rear top
skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't see how
you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit was built
from circa 1999-2000 plans.

The way mine is built the plates on the stab go inside the plates on the
fuselage. The plates on the fuselage are in place and the holes through the
stab and fuse plates have been drilled and do align. With the cut-out on the
top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates
on the fuselage.

Is it built wrong? Were things done in the wrong order? Are newer kits
different? Do the cut-outs in the top skin need to be more generous?

-- Craig


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vozzen



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

>>With the cut-out on the
>top skin you can't bring the stab in and then drop it inside of the plates
>on the fuselage.

Craig--
Same situation on mine. I left one of the forward mounting brackets un-riveted -- allows the stab to slip into the notch in the topskin. You could widen the cutout, or drill out a bracket. Might be more ideas in the archives.
--Rico, XL/3300, fuse....


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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback. The downside of removing rivets is that you will
have to remove rivets whenever you need to remove the stab. That should be
infrequent but for some reason it bugs me. Maybe I'll mount the entire top
rear skin with nut-plates Smile

-- Craig

--


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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Not that I condone that reasoning but wouldn't it be easier to mount the
brackets with nutplates?

Ed Moody II

---


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grant.corriveau(at)TELUS.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Hi Craig,
I had to reinstall my stab after my aircraft was transported this summer.  (I'm assuming that your rudder is removed as mine was)... I did in fact find that the cutouts in the top rear skin had to be enlarged slightly, both to allow me to drop the stab back into it's original position on the brakets, and then to get my hand into that small space to get the nuts back on... in fact, I think I resorted to using a magnet or ball of tape on the end of a wrench to be able to accomplish the nut replacement.  It was harder than when I initially built the plane - circa 1995-2001...

Grant
GHTF - 601HDs
-------------------------------
grant.corriveau(at)telus.net (grant.corriveau(at)telus.net)
---------------------------------------
The Wings Stayed On!
http://aluwings.blogspirit.com
---------------------------------------
==============
Quote:

Time: 05:31:16 PM PST US
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>
Subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab.


--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>


I'm the third owner of my kit and the original builder (Jack Rentfrow) built
all the sheet metal portions. For various reasons I'm replacing the rear top
skin and am checking the fit of the horizontal stabilizer. I don't see how
you can install the stab with the top rear skin in place. This kit was built
from circa 1999-2000 plans.


Quote:


[quote][b]


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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Well, I was "smiling".

There are a lot of rivets on the plates on the fuse. In terms of shear
strength how does a 6/32 nut-plate riveted to the fuse compare to a plain
rivet? If it was designed this way from the beginning then the plates in the
stab would extend down far enough to bolt to the fuse instead of having
separate plates in the fuse and stab.

But I'm hoping for a simpler solution or at least an explanation of how it
worked for others. I'll send a question off to Mexico, MO but I don't expect
a definitive answer.

-- Craig

--


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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

This is what Zenith had to say about my problem.

-- Craig

--


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VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been riveted. The mod in the pictures looks pretty slick.

A really neat solution would be for Zenith to redesign the fiberglass piece that fits on top of the stab under the leading edge of the rudder.  Is there any reason why it couldn't extend all the way up to the rear bulkhead?

Dave Harms
601XL/Corvair
[quote][b]


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agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I have been reading all the coments about installing the Stab. For your information, I have had my HDS in the air for about 2 years. I have a tight fit of the rear skin and the Stab. and have had the Stab. on and off a few times with no problems. A friend of mine just finished his HD and we put it together at the airport. We installed the Stab. with out any problems also. If you would like some pictures of both the HD and the HDS I could take some when I get to the airport in the next few days.

AL from Oshkosh

Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:
[quote]This is what Zenith had to say about my problem.

-- Craig

--


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entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

I've wondered, too, about mounting the stab after the top rear skin has been
riveted. Dave Harms
601XL/Corvair
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By notching the top fuse skin, the horizontal stab can be installed later.
As shown in the attached photo, make a cardboard template before cutting
metal.

R. Johnson
601-HDS / Corvair
(putting the engine together)


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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

I agree with Al. It has been some time since I installed the Horiz. Stab. on my 601HD but I don't remember it being a problem. The upper aft skin was installed, all the attach brackets had been installed and the fuselage had been painted as well as the stab. I have a close fit at the cutouts too. I don't understand the installation problem?

do not archive

Jim Hoak

[quote] ---


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vozzen



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

>I don't understand the installation problem?

I think what we have here is the fact that not all stab mounting brackets are created equal -- ie, some can be slipped on, some can't. And the ones that can't are close.

IIRC, this is also a case where the dimensions on the drawings (for the span of the brackets) have changed from the earlier plans [not the first change!!]

My suggestion:
During assembly, BEFORE riveting the mounting brackets on the fuse, figure out whether the stab can be slipped in or not. If not, think about what you're going to have to do to remove the stab, after it's finished and painted.

Tio Rico, XL, 71.4% and holding


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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

For what ever reason some people have problems and some do not.

With the rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where the bolt holes align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer can not be brought in at an rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the brackets on the fuselage. And because the brackets on the fuselage form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level from the rear as the brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the fuselage.

-- Craig
[quote][b]


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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Craig,
I've included a linked image from when my stabilizer was being fitted
and had much the same problem. I made my saddle reach a bit more to
minimize the
tail skin overhang needed to get the stabilizer to slip under and on. I
ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to fit.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/fibrglasfairing.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudderfairing.gif

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Craig Payne wrote:

Quote:
For what ever reason some people have problems and some do not.

With the rear skin in place I can't position the stabilizer to where
the bolt holes align. Because of the fit of the skin the stabilizer
can not be brought in at an rear-edge-high angle and lowered into the
brackets on the fuselage. And because the brackets on the fuselage
form a V the stabilizer can not be inserted level from the rear as the
brackets on the stabilizer fit inside of the plates on the fuselage.

-- Craig

*
*



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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Quote:
> I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to
fit.


Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and
the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry
about small birds getting in and building a nest in there Smile

-- Craig


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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Seriously, we have a hell of a time with mud daubber wasps aroung here. I even made aluminum fillets for the big wasp-sized holes at the top and bottom of the trailing edge of the rudder. Anything that will reduce the weight of dirt nests that I have to haul off the runway, the better I like it.

Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / cabin

---- Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:
Quote:


>> I ink marked nearly 3/8-inch clearance around the nose to get the stab to
fit.

Yes, I probably worry too much about keeping the gap between the stab and
the skin tight. I doubt a larger gap would add any real drag. I just worry
about small birds getting in and building a nest in there Smile

-- Craig


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Stupid question: mounting the horizontal stab. Reply with quote

Ed, you might want to reconsider about those wasps and bees. If you have a bunch inside your wings flying around wouldn't they act to lighten the plane ? Depending on the power of your engine ( or lack there of ) a couple pounds might mean a lot. I can just see you banging on the sides of the plane during run up to stir them up enough to lighten the plane. Don't mind me, I spent too long flying above 10,000 feet this weekend. Best regards, Bill
do not archive [quote][b]


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