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801 Fuel Tanks

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pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The  only leaks I have are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the  caps are vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up the  glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to blow up the glove  through the  cap. Is any venting OK or is it better to have  more?

  

 Dave

  

  

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Hi Dave,



 I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me your cap should be sealed and you should have a different port for venting the tank.  That is the way it is done on the XL.  



 You will need a significant amount of air pressure going into the fuel tank to insure good fuel flow to the engine.  This is accomplished on the XL with a 3/8 inch metal tube welded near the fuel intake cap but on the bottom side of the tank.  It extends up to nearly the top of the tank and is cut at an angle that forces some air into it when the plane is in flight.  It also serves as a fuel overflow vent so expanded fuel will not burst the tank on a hot parking space.  I have no idea what the 801 has in its tank design, but I would have thought C. Heintz would use similar design techniques on all his designs.



 The fuel intake cap on the XL is threaded into the tank via a welded metal ring.  I went ahead and sealed this thread with normal plumbing thread compound.  If your tank has the same feature it may be this thread that is leaking air rather than the gas cap itself.



 Good luck,



 Paul

 XL fuselage



 

 At 08:57 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The only leaks I have are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the caps are vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up the glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to blow up the glove through the  cap. Is any venting OK or is it better to have more?

  

 Dave

  

  

  	
 

 -    [quote][b]

Tom

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks

The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the wings. The caps will supply enough air venting to ensure the tanks remain at normal air pressure. If the tanks were locked off then gas flow would stop after a hour or so of running due to the vacuum created.

_________________
Tom CH801
http://tompizza.webhop.net

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Hi Dave the vented caps on the 801 are the same ones that have been used on the 701 for the last 20 yrs. That is all you need and they work quite well. The 601XL being a low wing and is concerned about excess drag has incorporated a flush fuel cap system but this involves making a vent tube in the tank. The 701 and 801 are all about drag and simplicity so the cap hanging in the wing and not having a vent tube wielded in are par for the course.  

     

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario  

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started  

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com  

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz

 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:07 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks  

   

Hi Dave,

 

 I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me your cap should be sealed and you should have a different port for venting the tank.  That is the way it is done on the XL.  

 

 You will need a significant amount of air pressure going into the fuel tank to insure good fuel flow to the engine.  This is accomplished on the XL with a 3/8 inch metal tube welded near the fuel intake cap but on the bottom side of the tank.  It extends up to nearly the top of the tank and is cut at an angle that forces some air into it when the plane is in flight.  It also serves as a fuel overflow vent so expanded fuel will not burst the tank on a hot parking space.  I have no idea what the 801 has in its tank design, but I would have thought C. Heintz would use similar design techniques on all his designs.

 

 The fuel intake cap on the XL is threaded into the tank via a welded metal ring.  I went ahead and sealed this thread with normal plumbing thread compound.  If your tank has the same feature it may be this thread that is leaking air rather than the gas cap itself.

 

 Good luck,

 

 Paul

 XL fuselage

 

 

 At 08:57 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote: <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  

Thanks for all the suggestions for leak tests. The only leaks I have are around the rubber gloves and rubber bands. I guess the caps are vented. I put one on and put a glove over it. I can still blow up the glove. How much venting do I need? It is obviously harder to blow up the glove through the  cap. Is any venting OK or is it better to have more?

  

 Dave

  

  

    

-    	  Quote: 	
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--

 10/2/2006

  

  

--

 10/2/2006

     [quote][b]

caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

I have a question extending this discussion.  I have an 801 with both main and aux tanks.  I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine.  I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing tanks to "drain" into.  The wing tanks are vented and the header tank is not.  The header tank feed the Gascolator which will feed the fuel pumps which pressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank.  The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrader valve to bleed off air.  I don't have this hooked up yet.

   

  Comments?



Tom <tomp(at)cogeco.ca> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" 



The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

My first impression is that you will be ok. If your header tank was vented the vent would have to be higher then the wing tanks or the fuel would siphon out. Since it is next to impossible to run a vent up higher then the wing tanks my feeling is that your set up "should" work. Just remember the 801 is a strange beast in that the wings work soooo good the low pressure area on top of the wings plays tricks on the entire fuel system and venting. There was a 801 down in Texas that crashed because of  venting issues... After we spend all this time building our toys we surely don't want to trash it over something that is documented... Just me opinion.. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 I have a question extending this discussion.  I have an 801 with both main and aux tanks.  I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine.  I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing tanks to "drain" into.  The wing tanks are vented and the header tank is not.  The header tank feed the Gascolator which will feed the fuel pumps which pressurize the MPI fuel rail which ends in a regulator that connects back to the header tank.  The header tank is NOT vented except for a schrader valve to bleed off air.  I don't have this hooked up yet.

  

 Comments?



Tom <tomp(at)cogeco.ca> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom" 



The 801 has vented caps and will be different from the xl because of the high wing versus low wing disign of the  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Hello Jay,



Just one fast comment,  (no 801 builder or owner)  No time to think about it now myself, sorry.. 



But the number 1 case (Kitplanes article) of accidents were fuel related and most of them in the first hours...    Just be very carefull and look for all the potential problems in any design.



You will get enough advise from the list, but keep your mind open to the best system YOU can choose and build. 



Good luck and keep us posted.



Saludos

Gary Gower

Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

do not archive



Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:[quote] I have a question extending this discussion.  I have an 801 with both main and aux tanks.  I am installing a Crossflow Subaru Turbochared engine.  I have a header tank installed on the Firewall for the wing [quote][b]

Tom

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: Re: 801 Fuel Tanks

One more note on this is the type of fuel system you are using, for my injection system I don't need a return line and that may make a difference as to the type of gas cap you use. Find out from the manufacturer what system they would recommend. I'm running a IO-360 with a Precision Ex fuel injection which doesn't use a return line.

_________________
Tom CH801
http://tompizza.webhop.net

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Tom,



I have, or will have, when it gets built, the same (more or less) engine. I 

drove down to Ameritech and talked to the owner, salesman and girls in the 

office. They build the XP I0 360 Xtreme engines. I did ask about the return 

line for fuel engine since I had heard it was necessary for the Subaru 

engine installations. As you said, it is not. It looks like that the stock 

caps will be succifient.



Dave

---

kenny.aron(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

I'm also looking at a fuel-injected engine and found the following article useful:

 http://www.sdsefi.com/air50.htm

  

 There's a fuel-system diagram a page or so down that includes a fuel return line from the header tank to the main tanks, which I notice you didn't mention in your setup. This may be optional given the volume of the header tank, but think about it. 

  

 N801KA (reserved)

 Working on wings.

 

-- 

\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/

--Kenny A.

http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/

 http://users3.ev1.net/%7Ekennyarn/ 

  [quote][b]

Bill(at)flyinmiata.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: 801 Fuel Tanks

Mfgs have gotten away from return lines on FI engines due to concerns

about vapor lock. The fuel picks up heat from the engine bay as it

travels through the loop and heats the fuel in the tank. The newer stuff

mounts the fuel pressure reg in the tank and runs at a constant higher

pressure, rather than having the fuel pressure reg acting as a

controlled bleed back to the tank, referenced to manifold pressure.

FWIW.



Do not archive

TurboDog's Dad

Bill Cardell

www.flyinmiata.com 

1-800-FLY-MX5S

970-242-3800

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