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Kitfox-List:Stall speed

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

On Oct 11, 2006, at 4:53 PM, jareds wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I've been plagued for years with my fox on why i have such a high 

 stall speed.


	


Me too, Jared. I start to feel the stall at 48 MPH, and begins to go 

down at 45. But when checking with the GPS, my instrument shows always 

an excess of about 5 MPH, even with the static port installed where 

Skystar recommended it. Then I think: Okay, it's called Indicated Air 

Speed.  As long as I know where, on the instrument, I stall; who cares 

about the real speed?



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Mine stalls at 45, 40, and 35 mph, clean, 1/2, and full flaps 

respectively, IAS. In my case, 1/2 is 10°, and full is 20°.

Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

On Wednesday, October 11, 2006, at 02:04  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 11, 2006, at 4:53 PM, jareds wrote:

> I've been plagued for years with my fox on why i have such a high 

> stall speed.

 Me too, Jared. I start to feel the stall at 48 MPH, and begins to go 

 down at 45. But when checking with the GPS, my instrument shows always 

 an excess of about 5 MPH, even with the static port installed where 

 Skystar recommended it. Then I think: Okay, it's called Indicated Air 

 Speed.  As long as I know where, on the instrument, I stall; who cares 

 about the real speed?

 Cheers,

 Michel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

On Oct 11, 2006, at 9:07 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mine stalls at 45, 40, and 35 mph, clean, 1/2, and full flaps 

 respectively, IAS. In my case, 1/2 is 10°, and full is 20°.


	


Wow! What a big difference with flaps, Lynn! What is your max. flaps 

angle setting? Mine is only 10 degrees.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

jareds(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Every time i have someone else in the plane tasked with watching the GPS 

speed ... they end up white knuckled on the .."oh sh(at)#$ handle"

Landings always freak out new riders.  I think my IAS is prob a bit high 

also but still runs much faster at landing than it should be.  Also 

takes a bit more runway than it should but just not sure why my fox is 

different than others.  May need to check the weight again but last 

check it was around 630lbs so well within everyone elses posted wts??

Still flyin though but some close calls occasionally and would be nice 

to have some more lee way.

Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 11, 2006, at 4:53 PM, jareds wrote:

> I've been plagued for years with my fox on why i have such a high 

> stall speed.

 Me too, Jared. I start to feel the stall at 48 MPH, and begins to go 

 down at 45. But when checking with the GPS, my instrument shows always 

 an excess of about 5 MPH, even with the static port installed where 

 Skystar recommended it. Then I think: Okay, it's called Indicated Air 

 Speed.  As long as I know where, on the instrument, I stall; who cares 

 about the real speed?

 Cheers,

 Michel

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Funny thing the stall speeds.  I have been doing the v speeds in the VW 

Speedster and can stall between  -5 kts and 75 depending on power and angle 

of attack.   Just a little power and I can stall at 45kts, full power goes 

to a negative number and I quit before I overloaded my oil breather due to 

rear location.  I can get an accelerated stall up to 75 kts without power. 

Perhaps the angle of the engine to airframe varies between installations.   

Flaps?  Oh yea more testing.   Still messing with it at 21 hours total time. 

  Ron NB Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:07:46 -0400

Mine stalls at 45, 40, and 35 mph, clean, 1/2, and full flaps respectively, 

IAS. In my case, 1/2 is 10°, and full is 20°.

Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

On Wednesday, October 11, 2006, at 02:04  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

>

>

>On Oct 11, 2006, at 4:53 PM, jareds wrote:

>>I've been plagued for years with my fox on why i have such a high stall 

>>speed.

>

>Me too, Jared. I start to feel the stall at 48 MPH, and begins to go down 

>at 45. But when checking with the GPS, my instrument shows always an 

>excess of about 5 MPH, even with the static port installed where Skystar 

>recommended it. Then I think: Okay, it's called Indicated Air Speed.  As 

>long as I know where, on the instrument, I stall; who cares about the real 

>speed?

>

>Cheers,

>Michel

_________________________________________________________________

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occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:36 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

---

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Wasn't a tailslide, but hanging on the prop almost.  Probably part prop 

blast interferance.  The biggest thing I've found is with my low redrive 

prop speed it helps to idle my prop up to 700 rpm on landings.  Ron

[quote]From: "Dave G." <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:35:32 -0300




---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

My flaps are maxed out at the 20° setting, Michel....and I couldn't get 

much more if I wanted to, without removing the center console, and 

doing some creative adjusting of linkages.

Lynn

On Wednesday, October 11, 2006, at 03:42  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 11, 2006, at 9:07 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

> Mine stalls at 45, 40, and 35 mph, clean, 1/2, and full flaps 

> respectively, IAS. In my case, 1/2 is 10°, and full is 20°.

 Wow! What a big difference with flaps, Lynn! What is your max. flaps 

 angle setting? Mine is only 10 degrees.

 Cheers,

 Michel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

On Oct 13, 2006, at 3:20 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My flaps are maxed out at the 20° setting, Michel....


	


Thanks, Lynn. You have a model IV, I have a model 3; different wing and 

flaperon airfoil. But I think I should increase mine ... carefully.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Michel,



The Model  1, 2 and 3  used totally different  flapperon mixer controls and 

you have no differential .    There is a possiblity of aileron reversal   "I 

think"  on the PRE   IV models.  But maybe someone else could comment.



I have a model  IV  and i have over 30 down deflection.  I know how to use 

flaps and they  are an excellent attribute to my Model IV  with over 20 

degree down on Take  offs .



That being said ,  over 20 degrees is pretty well useless on landings.



I am open for comments but please don't tell me they are unsafe this way . 

Full flaps over 20 degrees are totally safe if you know how to use them .

Dave



---

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Hello Dave,



On Oct 13, 2006, at 8:12 PM, Dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The Model  1, 2 and 3  used totally different  flapperon mixer 

 controls and you have no differential .    There is a possiblity of 

 aileron reversal   "I think"  on the PRE   IV models.  But maybe 

 someone else could comment.


	


Yes, my Kitfox 3 pilot manual says that I should not exceed 23 degrees 

flaps because it may reverse aileron. The 10 MPH difference between 0 

and 20 degrees from Lynn, makes me think that I might try to increase 

my 10 degrees to e.g. 15, well beyond the dangerous edge of 23.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

wliles(at)bayou.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

The original aileron/flap mixer control system of the Fox I, II, and III 

and all Avids till the Magnum had only minor differential with 0 flaps 

that went to neutral at about 10deg and became reversed differential 

past that.  At large flap deployments, beyond 20 deg, it became possible 

for the down deployed aileron to stall.  This effectively results in 

control reversal and usually occured in the pattern.  Even if the 

flapperon didn't stall control response became pretty poor, dangerously 

so with gusting winds.  Not a good thing at low altitude and low speed.  

For this reason Dean Wilson recommended that flaps be limited to 15deg  

max.  Denny allowed some of the early model Foxes to go to 20+, I think 

maybe 25deg.  This did result in some accidents in early versions.  If 

you have a FOX I, II, or III  I think 20 deg is the absolute max you 

should ever use and you would be happier with the airplanes manners if 

you limit it to 10 to 15 deg.   That gives a useful increase in lift 

without a degradation in control response. I know Tootie Mae flies 

beautifully with 10deg.  I don't use flaps to increase drag, that's what 

a slip is for.



Jerry Liles



Dave wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Michel,



 The Model  1, 2 and 3  used totally different  flapperon mixer 

 controls and you have no differential .    There is a possiblity of 

 aileron reversal   "I think"  on the PRE   IV models.  But maybe 

 someone else could comment.



 I have a model  IV  and i have over 30 down deflection.  I know how to 

 use flaps and they  are an excellent attribute to my Model IV  with 

 over 20 degree down on Take  offs .



 That being said ,  over 20 degrees is pretty well useless on landings.



 I am open for comments but please don't tell me they are unsafe this 

 way . Full flaps over 20 degrees are totally safe if you know how to 

 use them .

 Dave

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: Kitfox-List:Stall speed

Jerry,  Thanks    that is bascially what I thought on  the  I,II, and III 

models but the IV  I find work well for extra lift over 20 degrees adn up to 

30 or more.

I will try to measure this weekend what I actually get.



Dave

---

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