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coolant issues?

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n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: coolant issues?

Has anyone hear of issues with the new coolant being used in Rotax 914s? 

This is part of a message I received from a fellow Europa pilot.



"...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I saw 

it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff - I 

heard 2 fatalities of coolant leak catching fire. The 50 - 50 solution 

will not burn. Oh well! Have you heard anything about this? I also 

discovered that the 100% solution of antifreeze burns too..."

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: coolant issues?

Ralph,



 	  Quote: 	
		   "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I 

 saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff 

 - I heard 2 fatalities of coolant leak catching fire. The 50 - 50 

 solution will not burn. Oh well! Have you heard anything about this? I 

 also discovered that the 100% solution of antifreeze burns too..."


	


Yes glycols are flammable. Remember those WWII air combat stories ?



The NPG+ consists of a blend of different glycols (propylene glycol 

seems to be the main component, as in the regular NPG coolant).

Propylene glycol (1,2 propanediol) has a 107°C flash point.

Please see SDS here http://www.sargentwelch.com/pdf/msds/sch94661.pdf



In my opinion, the main hazard is with mists and fumes. A pinpoint leak 

may well produce some  heavier-than-air flammable mist under the cowling.

Do you have additional info on this Stemme SB ?



Nowadays, very few people in Civil Aviation Authorities, if any, have a 

clear understanding of what is involved in internal combustion engine 

cooling...

 From a pure technical point of view, there is little to be gained by 

using those water-free coolants.



Regards,

Gilles Thesee

Grenoble, France

http://contrails.free.fr

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:36 am Post subject: coolant issues?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I 

 saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff -


	


Found the SB :



http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf



FWIW,

Regards,

Gilles Thesee

Grenoble, France

http://contrails.free.fr

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: coolant issues?

I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable.  So is pure glycol.  As

long as you don’t let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to

the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).



Brian  



--

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: coolant issues?

Brian Davies a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable.  So is pure glycol.  As

 long as you don’t let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to

 the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).

   


	


Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would 

be a real concern for me 



Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with 

these Evans SBs.

There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ?



Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: coolant issues?

Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100% Ethylene 

Glycol!!



Duncan McF

---

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: coolant issues?

Duncan,

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100% 

 Ethylene Glycol!!


	


The 912 designed for 100% Glycol ? Ducan, can you give further details ?



Thanks,

Regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: coolant issues?

According to recent publication by the UK Rotax agent.

But it didn't work well (jellied coolant, internal deposits) so got watered 

down.



Duncan McF

---

n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: coolant issues?

Gilles,

Thanks for all the info, as usual you are a great resource. I'm still 

over a year from completing the Europa, but I won't forget this one.

Ralph

XS motorglider

Reno,NV

Gilles Thesee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-grenoble.fr>

 Ralph,

> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I 

> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff 

> - I heard 2 fatalities of coolant leak catching fire. The 50 - 50 

> solution will not burn. Oh well! Have you heard anything about this? 

> I also discovered that the 100% solution of antifreeze burns too..."

 Yes glycols are flammable. Remember those WWII air combat stories ?

 The NPG+ consists of a blend of different glycols (propylene glycol 

 seems to be the main component, as in the regular NPG coolant).

 Propylene glycol (1,2 propanediol) has a 107°C flash point.

 Please see SDS here http://www.sargentwelch.com/pdf/msds/sch94661.pdf

 In my opinion, the main hazard is with mists and fumes. A pinpoint 

 leak may well produce some  heavier-than-air flammable mist under the 

 cowling.

 Do you have additional info on this Stemme SB ?

 Nowadays, very few people in Civil Aviation Authorities, if any, have 

 a clear understanding of what is involved in internal combustion 

 engine cooling...

 From a pure technical point of view, there is little to be gained by 

 using those water-free coolants.

 Regards,

 Gilles Thesee

 Grenoble, France

 http://contrails.free.fr

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: coolant issues?

Ralph,



Thank you for your message.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Thanks for all the info, as usual you are a great resource. I'm still 

 over a year from completing the Europa, but I won't forget this one.


	


 You're welcome.

Best of luck with your project,

Regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

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