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europa(at)triton.net
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 Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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Recent inspection has revealed excessive play in our port tailplane. The problem is play in the torque tube pin. We incorporated Mod 62 (larger pins) during our build so thats not an option.
Our Tech Counselor suggested using AN386 taper pins. He said they are commonly used for similar applications in certificated aircraft. AC 43-13 confirms that AN386 pins are used in joints where "the absence of play is essential".
A search of this forum suggested that the inner tube (TP4) would crush and bind in the bearing (TP11) if tapered pins were used. Our thoughts are to Loctite a 12" length of 1.375" OD .093" wall 4130 steel tubing centered inside of TP4. This would prevent the crushing of TP4 and 12" allows it to span the TP11 bearings. We would use a machine shop to accurately make the tapered holes for AN386-3 pins. The tapered pins would be installed vertically since there is not much material left on TP9 (the center bracket) from the installation of 3/8", Mod 62 pins.
In the original design, the pins also locate TP10 sleeves against TP11 bearings inside the fuselage to prevent left - right torque tube movement. We would like to locate TP10 independently of the pins. Our thoughts are to machine TP10 sleeves to fit outside the fuselage between TP12 and TP11 to achieve the same purpose. Alternatively, we could split or slot TP10 and secure them to TP12 inside the fuselage with hose clamps (Oetiker style for 360 deg contact).
Comments?
Jim & Heather Butcher
N241BW XS, Mono, 914
[quote][b]
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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On Monday, October 23, 2006, at 04:05 PM, Jim Butcher wrote:
| Quote: | Recent inspection has revealed excessive play in our port tailplane.
The problem is play in the torque tube pin. We incorporated Mod 62
(larger pins) during our build so thats not an option.
|
Jim,
Sorry to hear of your problem, but grateful for your bringing it to our
attention. I can't comment on your proposed solution but admire your
calm approach to solving it. Please keep us posted. Does the use of
tapered pins assume future adjustment, or will the tapered pins "self
adjust" in the event of future wear?
Fred
A194 (grateful that my top's not yet bonded onto the canoe)
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europa(at)triton.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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Fred,
In response to your question
Does the use of tapered pins assume future adjustment, or will the tapered
pins "self adjust" in the event of future wear?
Taper pins do not self adjust, but may be easily adjusted as needed.
The main advantage is that the initial installation will not have the play
inherent in the current design.
Jim & Heather Butcher
N241BW
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willie.harrison(at)tinyon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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Has anyone looked at the possibility of putting a new set of holes at 90 degrees to the original set, in order to allow the original bits to be re-used with parallel pins in Jim and Heather's situation?
One small but important thing I learned when I retrofitted mod 62 is that grease is much better than oil as a lubricant when you fit the pins into into what ought to be a slight undersize hole. I did several trial assemblies on the bench by way of a rehearsal as I didn't want to discover a problem half way through fitting for real. I found that the grease prevented the pins from seizing/picking up/scuffing as you tap then into place, but ordinary oil allowed then to seize up before they were fully in place. Funny stuff, stainless steel.
By the way, I have a set of slight undersize reamers which I bought for this and any member is welcome to borrow them.
80 flying hours later there is still not the slightest sign of any play at all. I do my best to protect the tail plane from unusual forces, eg banging from stop to stop if left pointing downwind in the fuel queue.
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY - now got the ratio of flying to fettling time up to 10:1 and rising...
On 24 Oct 2006, at 00:05, Jim Butcher wrote:
| Quote: |
Recent inspection has revealed excessive play in our port tailplane. The problem is play in the torque tube pin. We incorporated Mod 62 (larger pins) during our build so thats not an option.
Our Tech Counselor suggested using AN386 taper pins. He said they are commonly used for similar applications in certificated aircraft. AC 43-13 confirms that AN386 pins are used in joints where "the absence of play is essential".
A search of this forum suggested that the inner tube (TP4) would crush and bind in the bearing (TP11) if tapered pins were used. Our thoughts are to Loctite a 12" length of 1.375" OD .093" wall 4130 steel tubing centered inside of TP4. This would prevent the crushing of TP4 and 12" allows it to span the TP11 bearings. We would use a machine shop to accurately make the tapered holes for AN386-3 pins. The tapered pins would be installed vertically since there is not much material left on TP9 (the center bracket) from the installation of 3/8", Mod 62 pins.
In the original design, the pins also locate TP10 sleeves against TP11 bearings inside the fuselage to prevent left - right torque tube movement. We would like to locate TP10 independently of the pins. Our thoughts are to machine TP10 sleeves to fit outside the fuselage between TP12 and TP11 to achieve the same purpose. Alternatively, we could split or slot TP10 and secure them to TP12 inside the fuselage with hose clamps (Oetiker style for 360 deg contact).
Comments?
Jim & Heather Butcher
N241BW XS, Mono, 914
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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />“The tapered pins would be installed vertically since there is not much material left on
TP9 (the center bracket) from the installation of 3/8", Mod 62 pins.”
Jim,
Tapered pins are probably a good solution but installing them vertically is an absolute no-go as this would significantly reduce the ability of the tail plane to handle vertical loads.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL [quote][b]
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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Jim
just a note until I get what's left of my brain back in gear. Just back
from Hungary having my teeth fixed, they pushed the price so high in UK
they don't get the practice , the Hungarian guy was very professioanal
and good value.
I don't like the idea of taper pins, there's too much possobo;ity to
pull the torque tube oval and that will ruin the behaviour of the
bearing bushes. It would be possible using a machined plug to resist the
compression but not as simple as it first appears
Graham
Jim Butcher wrote:
| Quote: | Recent inspection has revealed excessive play in our port tailplane.
The problem is play in the torque tube pin. We incorporated Mod 62
(larger pins) during our build so thats not an option.
Our Tech Counselor suggested using AN386 taper pins. He said they are
commonly used for similar applications in certificated aircraft. AC
43-13 confirms that AN386 pins are used in joints where "the absence
of play is essential".
|
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thomas(at)scherer.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: Tailplane Torque Tube |
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Just my 1 cent on the torque tube issue - whenever I drilled my tube -
sure enough I di not yet have a drill-press - and ended up with too big
holes.
Found rescue in tapered pins and have been flying 9 years now without
any issue or the need to re-tighten them.
See everybody at Copperstate this weekend !
<Thomas, N81EU>
----Original Message----
From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com
Date: Oct 24, 2006 16:11
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Re: Tailplane Torque Tube
<grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Jim
just a note until I get what's left of my brain back in gear. Just
back
from Hungary having my teeth fixed, they pushed the price so high in
UK
they don't get the practice , the Hungarian guy was very
professioanal
and good value.
I don't like the idea of taper pins, there's too much possobo;ity to
pull the torque tube oval and that will ruin the behaviour of the
bearing bushes. It would be possible using a machined plug to resist
the
compression but not as simple as it first appears
Graham
Jim Butcher wrote:
| Quote: | Recent inspection has revealed excessive play in our port
tailplane.
|
| Quote: | The problem is play in the torque tube pin. We incorporated Mod 62
(larger pins) during our build so that’s not an option.
Our Tech Counselor suggested using AN386 taper pins. He said they
are
|
| Quote: | commonly used for similar applications in certificated aircraft. AC
43-13 confirms that AN386 pins are used in joints where "the
absence
|
| Quote: | of play is essential".
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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| Back to top |
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