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Kitfox vs. Cub

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Tony Partain

Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Bend Oregon

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Hello everyone after building my RV7 and starting a RV10, midway through the RV10 tail kit I decided that I had already done enough metal work. So I sold the 10 tail kit. My other choice was a Cub, but after researching the Cub kits they were either very expensive or expensive and incomplete. And the plans for a Cub are non existent. The Kitfox kept coming back to the front of the list. I looked at the Just Aircraft Highlander but support of the Kitfox group seem to be more prevalent. The side by side seating is a plus and having 150 lbs of baggage capacity is a plus also.



So I have a few question about performance of the Super Sport with a 100 hp Rotax. 



Is the advertised rate of climb accurate for the Super Sport? The advertised rate is 1200 fpm. 



Is the stall speed accurate at 41 mph? 



How many people are actually using this aircraft for back country airstrips? I plan on using the plane on strips that a mainly grass and gravel strips. Nothing extreme.



Does this design have the durability to handle this type of use? 



Quick Build wings, is it worth the extra $1295 for the QB option?



I would like to hear your thoughts on  these items.

_________________
Tony Partain
Partain Transport Company
Bend Oregon
http://www.partaintransport.com
RV7 IO360 CS 116WT

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Tony,

  

 Except for VAN's don't thrust the factory  Nr's.

 I guess that's why you ask this group.

 Dave have a top speed of 100+ MPH with 65 HP,  on his KF IV, so if everything ells is the same, you will have a cruise of  100-102 at 65% power.

  

 top speed 115 -118 MPH if you have  fairings.

  

 climb at 1200 LBS TOW 1050fpm to 1390 fpm depending  on how you prop the plane.(standard day SL)

  

 Jan 

 [quote]   ---

rdmac(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Tony,

	I can speak for the 1200 fpm rate of climb. I built a model 7 with

100 horse Rotax and with the area of the country where I fly from being

anywhere from to 800 to 1200 msl. That rate of climb is certainly attainable

and I have the basic GSC wood prop. It may vary to on how you have it

pitched. I lost a little climb performance when I repitched the prop for

cruise but it will still leave the runway after a 300 to 400 ft role and

climb like a homesick angle, I just love it.  As for the quick build wings,

if you're a person that enjoys the building experience you can save some

money but for me the extra money was worth it. They can build the wings with

there jigs at the factory and when you get them they look like a work of

art, very will done. As for durability I have made some not so graceful

landings in mine and I'm still amazed at how durable that spring aluminum

gear is. It is stout. Good luck on your decision.



Roger Mac

S7/912uls



--

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

you can get a  built Highlander with minamum IFR ( not legal  IFR)  for $65,000      malcolm

  [quote][b]

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Hey Tony,

  Welcome to the Kitfox gang. You may remember the Kitfox you delivered in Mesa AZ last January...that was mine. It is going well, but slower than I like. If I remember right I think you said you finished your RV-7 in 6 months? With that speed, it may take you 3-4 months to do a Kitfox...especially if you get the QB wings. 

  I can't give you Super Sport specs as I'm building a IV, however, the guys I have flown with in IV's, and VII's have the Rotax 912s and they do climb out at 1200 ft/min and then some. Here in the desert, climbout was what I was concerned with. After my first flight (which was in July of 05) I was sold. With two of us at close to 400 lbs. That 100 HP pulled us up like we weren't there.

   

  If you choose to go Kitfox, talk to John McBean about the in-flight adjustable IVO Prop. You will find nothing better.

  As for durability, these planes are great for back country strips. Get the  Grove Spring gear and you will be sitting pretty. I can't say exactly what the stall speed average is for the Sport, however, this is the area of stall that the IV's enjoy. 

  Good Luck with your decision,

  Dan Billingsley

  www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html 



Tony Partain <tpartain(at)bendcable.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tony Partain" 



Hello everyone after building my RV7 and starting a RV10, midway through the RV10 tail kit I decided that I had already done enough metal work. So I sold the 10 tail kit. My other choice was a Cub, but after researching the Cub kits they were either very expensive or expensive and incomplete. And the plans for a Cub are non existent. The Kitfox kept coming back to  the front of the list. I looked at the Just Aircraft Highlander but support of the Kitfox group seem to be more prevalent. The side by side seating is a plus and having 150 lbs of baggage capacity is a plus also.



So I have a few question about performance of the Super Sport with a 100 hp Rotax. 



Is the advertised rate of climb accurate for the Super Sport? The advertised rate is 1200 fpm. 



Is the stall speed accurate at 41 mph? 



How many people are actually using this aircraft for back country airstrips? I plan on using the plane on strips that a mainly grass and gravel strips. Nothing extreme.



Does this design have the durability to handle this type of use? 



Quick Build wings, is it worth the extra $1295 for the QB option?



I would like to hear your thoughts on these items.



--------

Tony Partain

Partain Transport Company

Bend Oregon



RV7 IO360 CS 116WT





Read this topic online [quote][b]

Tony Partain

Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Bend Oregon

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox vs. Cub

Gentleman thanks for the replies.  I am really looking forward to building another plane, a tube and fabric plane this time!  My initial thoughs were to us a traditional engine, but the Rotax seems to be the engine of choice.  It also sounds like the factory numbers are close.



One other question about the builders manual, the Vans manual is pretty good for the RV 7 8 9, but it's fantastic for the 10. How does the Kitfox manual stack up?



 It sounds like I will be making a trip to Idaho as soon as John returns from Copperstate.

_________________
Tony Partain
Partain Transport Company
Bend Oregon
http://www.partaintransport.com
RV7 IO360 CS 116WT

Last edited by Tony Partain on Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

I hope you haven't overlooked the Jabiru line of engines....2200 4-cyl 

or 3300 6-cyl...all air-cooled. Rotax may LOOK like the engine of 

choice, but for a long time it was the ONLY choice. Do yourself a favor 

and have a look. I'm VERY satisfied with mine after 180 hours...



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

do not archive



On Thursday, October 26, 2006, at 09:54  PM, Tony Partain wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <tpartain(at)bendcable.com>



 Gentleman thanks for the replies.  I am really looking forward to 

 building another plane, a tube and fabric plane this time!  My initial 

 thoughs were to us a traditional engine, but the Rotax seems to be the 

 engine of choice.  It also sounds like the factory numbers are close.



 One other question about the builders manual, the Vans manual is 

 pretty good for the RV 7 8 9, but it's fantastic for the 10. How does 

 the Kitfox manual stack up?



  I sound like I will be making a trip to Idaho as soon as John returns 

 from Copperstate.



 --------

 Tony Partain

 Partain Transport Company

 Bend Oregon

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gjfpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Tony,

  I am building a Classic IV and did not choose the

quick build wing option. It took me about 100 hours to

assemble both wings to the where they were identical

to the quick build wings that came in a Series 5

Kitfox kit. I had more time than money and enjoyed

putting them together. Plus, I figured I saved about

$12/buiding hour!

Grant Fluent



--- Tony Partain <tpartain(at)bendcable.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <tpartain(at)bendcable.com>

 

 Hello everyone after building my RV7 and starting a

 RV10, midway through the RV10 tail kit I decided

 that I had already done enough metal work. So I sold

 the 10 tail kit. My other choice was a Cub, but

 after researching the Cub kits they were either very

 expensive or expensive and incomplete. And the plans

 for a Cub are non existent. The Kitfox kept coming

 back to the front of the list. I looked at the Just

 Aircraft Highlander but support of the Kitfox group

 seem to be more prevalent. The side by side seating

 is a plus and having 150 lbs of baggage capacity is

 a plus also.

 

 So I have a few question about performance of the

 Super Sport with a 100 hp Rotax. 

 

 Is the advertised rate of climb accurate for the

 Super Sport? The advertised rate is 1200 fpm. 

 

 Is the stall speed accurate at 41 mph? 

 

 How many people are actually using this aircraft for

 back country airstrips? I plan on using the plane on

 strips that a mainly grass and gravel strips.

 Nothing extreme.

 

 Does this design have the durability to handle this

 type of use? 

 

 Quick Build wings, is it worth the extra $1295 for

 the QB option?

 

 I would like to hear your thoughts on  these items.

 

 --------

 Tony Partain

 Partain Transport Company

 Bend Oregon

 

 RV7 IO360 CS 116WT

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70257#70257
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List



 Web Forums!

 Admin.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

On Oct 27, 2006, at 4:17 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I hope you haven't overlooked the Jabiru line of engines....2200 4-cyl 

 or 3300 6-cyl...all air-cooled. Rotax may LOOK like the engine of 

 choice, but for a long time it was the ONLY choice. Do yourself a 

 favor and have a look. I'm VERY satisfied with mine after 180 hours...


	


So am I, after 160 hours. Like all air-cooled engines, the Jabiru 

requires a cowling modification that creates the proper ventilation 

but, once that is done, the engine is very reliable and smooth running. 

Those who have had problems with the Jabiru are those who think they 

know better than the manufacturers and modify the original 

installation. That's cool, after all we are talking about experimental 

aviation. But then, don't blame the manufacturer. If you install a 

Jabiru as recommended, with the original airbox and oil cooler, using a 

recommended propeller, you are certain to have many hours of 

trouble-free flying pleasure. The TBO is 2,000 hours with a cylinder 

top overhauling at 1,000.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

I'm in the early process of building a Series VII with the builder's manual 

I received with the kit from Skystar.  I previously built an RV-4 in the 

late 80's.  In my opinion the Skystar builder's manual is not quite as good 

as a Van's manual, but it's not bad.  I'm finding it to be quite adequate, 

particularly with all the construction pictures and advice from other Kitfox 

builders available on the internet and this forum.  But perhaps most 

important, the new owner, John McBean is every bit as good as Van's (maybe 

even a little better) in answering questions and providing advice.



Good luck in your project.



Ken Jones

---

Tony Partain

Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Bend Oregon

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox vs. Cub

Are there any builder web sites? I would like to see them. 



Ken could you call me at the office? 800-774-0828.

_________________
Tony Partain
Partain Transport Company
Bend Oregon
http://www.partaintransport.com
RV7 IO360 CS 116WT

rdmac(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Tony,

	Having only built one airplane so far in my life I really have

nothing to compare with the Kitfox build manual. However it isn't bad I

guess. I did find a couple of typos and other minor errors, nothing really

comes to mind.  

And those have probable been corrected too. So short answer, the manual is

OK I guess. It could certainly be worse.

	Roger Mac 

--

davestapa(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Tony, I have finished a Kitfox 5 and I am about 60% on a Van's RV-9A. In

my opinion the Kitfox manual is far superior to the Van's manual and blue

prints. In fact Van's has changed to a manual almost identically set up

as Kitfox on the RV-10 and recently on the RV-8. I spend a lot of time

searching for notes and details on the Van's prints (can be on several

pages) where as on most operations you have everything spread out on

double pages in the Kitfox manual



C. David Estapa

Woodstock, GA

S5TD N97DE (taxi testing).



On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:54:51 -0500 "Roger McConnell" <rdmac(at)swbell.net>

writes:

[quote] 

 <rdmac(at)swbell.net>

 

 Tony,

         Having only built one airplane so far in my life I really 

 have

 nothing to compare with the Kitfox build manual. However it isn't 

 bad I

 guess. I did find a couple of typos and other minor errors, nothing 

 really

 comes to mind.  

 And those have probable been corrected too. So short answer, the 

 manual is

 OK I guess. It could certainly be worse.

         Roger Mac 

 --

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

It could be like the QCU Challenger manual,,,,smile....worse

---

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Kitfox vs. Cub

Very little done with builder web sites in the Kitfox arena...mine is the only one I know of. www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html  Go to Sportflight page to get other bits of info.  http://www.sportflight.com/

  Dan



Tony Partain <tpartain(at)bendcable.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tony Partain" 



Are there any builder web sites? I would like to see them. 



Ken could you call me at the office? 800-774-0828.



--------

Tony Partain

Partain Transport Company

Bend Oregon 

http://www.vansairforce.net/Graphics/PartainTruckingCo.htm



RV7 IO360 CS 116WT





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