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sarg314(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
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Some one asked me to report in after talking to the Stewart Systems
people at Copperstate today, so here is my rather long report. You
should know that I am a rank amateur when it comes to painting. An
experienced painter might have a different take on this.
Stewart Systems (www.stewartsystems.aero) is selling a waterborne, two
part urethane paint. It is "low VOC", "nonhazardous, nonflammable and
EPA compliant" so it is much safer to spray than the typical urethane
paint. (VOC=volatile organic compounds.) It is not shipped as a
"hazardous material" and has very little odor. I was told that a carbon
filter respirator is all you need to spray this stuff (I'd probably err
on the safe side and use a fresh air respirator anyway). They also sell
a suitable one part primer along with the all the necessary surface prep
chemicals for fabric planes and aluminum and fiberglass too. All
nonhazardous and nonflammable. You can get all the detailed
specifications from the website. Click on metal aircraft
products/waterborn 2-part polyurethane topcoat.
After the urethane cures, they claim it is like any other urethane
paint, except that it is probably a bit more flexible. They had a
"sheet" of the stuff there (had been sprayed on a primed surface that it
wouldn't stick to so they could peel paint+primer off after it cured).
It was like a sheet of very tough, thin, very flexible plastic. except I
couldn't stretch it at all. Reminded me of the rip-stop nylon that is
used to make parachutes. I was probably about the 1000th guy to handle it.
The paint isn't applied like typical, high VOC paints. I guess it has
somewhat different density and viscosity, so experienced painters have
to be careful to NOT spray it the way they are used to spraying paint.
They recommend a Devilbiss HVLP spray gun kit which costs less than
$300, because I think it has some very small nozzles and can produce
very small droplets with this paint. They don't like turbine powered
spray guns because they heat the air. Since the paint is full of water
to start with, there's no value to any air dehumidifying effect that a
turbine may have. They recommend applying the paint in 4 or 5 light
coats. The first is a"fog coat". I gather that means not much paint
and very small dropplets. After the first one (which you can see thru)
gets tacky, you give the paint ajustment on the gun a 1/4 turn increase
and spray the next one. Then repeat the process. Sags and orange peel
can be repaired the same as with any other paint: You sand it with 1500
grit and then maybe 2000 grit and then buff it with a polishing
compound. He recommended the Dupont compound used for buffing clear coat.
They don't say anything about clear coat and there is none in their
catalog. So if you're one of those guys who has to have a clear coat, I
guess you'll have to do that in the usual way. I'm not. Primer and
color coat are enough of a challenge for me.
They have a manual which describes all the recommended procedures and
equipment, how to adjust the gun, etc. Unfortunately, they weren't
passing them out at the fly-in, so I will have to ask for one to be sent
to me on monday. Ask for a color chart too.
I have decided to use this stuff. The neighbors won't complain about
the odor, it won't give me cancer or liver disease and it won't
explode. (The guy at the booth claimed it would put a fire out, though
that sounds like salesman's hyperbole.) It seems to be just the ticket
for a temporary home spray booth project. The price seems to be about
the same as other paints. The primer is about $140/gallon. The color
coats run $230 to $338/gallon depending on the color. Most are $250 -
$270/gallon. So I'm guessing $700 - $800 total for the paint for my
plane. With the spraygun, paint booth, other chemicals, I'll probably
spend $1500 to paint the plane. I don't look forward to this, but if it
turns out well, I'll be glad to tell people I did it myself.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
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Dennis Glaeser
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
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I've been using the AFS primer/sealer for over a year (and like it) and
recently used their 2 part finish paint to do the inside of my tip-up frame.
For this job I used an Ingersol Rand spray HVLP gun (my son bought it at
Lowes) that hooks up to a regular compressor.
The color part of the paint is very thin, so I didn't think I'd need to add
much water to thin it. However when you add the second part, the paint
thickens up considerably, so I added water to thin it per the directions.
You use a viscosity cup and time how long it takes to drain to get the right
consistency. This was my first attempt at spraying a finish coat, so I
tried to follow the directions pretty closely. I didn't use a paint booth,
but did have a fan nearby to minimize overspray settling. It came out very
nice - better than I expected. The surface isn't mirror smooth but would
buff out with no problem (this is the inside of the tipup frame so that is
good enough). Perhaps if I used a gun with a finer nozzle it would have
been mirror smooth.
The paint does have an odor - but nothing compared to automotive paint. I
used a charcoal filter mask.
This paint dries to a 'wet look' finish. It looks like it was clear coated,
but it wasn't. That's probably why they don't have a clear coat product -
this stuff doesn't need it! In fact, since I'm using it for my interior, I
asked them about 'dulling it down' for use on the IP and they sent me an
additive for that purpose (or they can send the paint pre-mixed that way).
I haven't used that yet.
One benefit of being water based is that I can use my propane radiant heater
in my garage to warm things up enough to paint (small jobs anyway) and not
have to worry about explosions  I live in Michigan, so big jobs will
have to wait a while...
Dennis Glaeser
RV-7A Finishing
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rv8ch
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
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| Quote: | One benefit of being water based is that I can use my propane radiant heater
in my garage to warm things up enough to paint (small jobs anyway) and not
have to worry about explosions I live in Michigan, so big jobs will
have to wait a while...
|
That sounds like some nice paint! One question - is there a risk of the
hydrocarbons from the propane heater floating around and reducing the
quality of the paint finish? One fiberglass guy I know told me not to
use my super-clean, high tech Zibro-Kamin kerosene heaters due to the
contamination in the fiberglass layup. I'm not sure if this is an issue
with paint, or with waterbased paint, but you may want to look into it.
Thanks for the pirep on the AFS paint.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
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_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/ |
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Michael Wynn
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
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At the risk of asking a really stupid question, are AFS and Stewart systems the same thing? I have been thinking about painting my own plane, especially doing the interior prior to assembly. I am very daunted by the toxicity of standard airplane paint. This looks like a vast improvement.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Wings
San Ramon, California
Do Not Archive
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA |
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sarg314(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
|
|
Some one asked me to report in after talking to the Stewart Systems
people at Copperstate today, so here is my rather long report. You
should know that I am a rank amateur when it comes to painting. An
experienced painter might have a different take on this.
Stewart Systems (www.stewartsystems.aero) is selling a waterborne, two
part urethane paint. It is "low VOC", "nonhazardous, nonflammable and
EPA compliant" so it is much safer to spray than the typical urethane
paint. (VOC=volatile organic compounds.) It is not shipped as a
"hazardous material" and has very little odor. I was told that a carbon
filter respirator is all you need to spray this stuff (I'd probably err
on the safe side and use a fresh air respirator anyway). They also sell
a suitable one part primer along with the all the necessary surface prep
chemicals for fabric planes and aluminum and fiberglass too. All
nonhazardous and nonflammable. You can get all the detailed
specifications from the website. Click on metal aircraft
products/waterborn 2-part polyurethane topcoat.
After the urethane cures, they claim it is like any other urethane
paint, except that it is probably a bit more flexible. They had a
"sheet" of the stuff there (had been sprayed on a primed surface that it
wouldn't stick to so they could peel paint+primer off after it cured).
It was like a sheet of very tough, thin, very flexible plastic. except I
couldn't stretch it at all. Reminded me of the rip-stop nylon that is
used to make parachutes. I was probably about the 1000th guy to handle it.
The paint isn't applied like typical, high VOC paints. I guess it has
somewhat different density and viscosity, so experienced painters have
to be careful to NOT spray it the way they are used to spraying paint.
They recommend a Devilbiss HVLP spray gun kit which costs less than
$300, because I think it has some very small nozzles and can produce
very small droplets with this paint. They don't like turbine powered
spray guns because they heat the air. Since the paint is full of water
to start with, there's no value to any air dehumidifying effect that a
turbine may have. They recommend applying the paint in 4 or 5 light
coats. The first is a"fog coat". I gather that means not much paint
and very small dropplets. After the first one (which you can see thru)
gets tacky, you give the paint ajustment on the gun a 1/4 turn increase
and spray the next one. Then repeat the process. Sags and orange peel
can be repaired the same as with any other paint: You sand it with 1500
grit and then maybe 2000 grit and then buff it with a polishing
compound. He recommended the Dupont compound used for buffing clear coat.
They don't say anything about clear coat and there is none in their
catalog. So if you're one of those guys who has to have a clear coat, I
guess you'll have to do that in the usual way. I'm not. Primer and
color coat are enough of a challenge for me.
They have a manual which describes all the recommended procedures and
equipment, how to adjust the gun, etc. Unfortunately, they weren't
passing them out at the fly-in, so I will have to ask for one to be sent
to me on monday. Ask for a color chart too.
I have decided to use this stuff. The neighbors won't complain about
the odor, it won't give me cancer or liver disease and it won't
explode. (The guy at the booth claimed it would put a fire out, though
that sounds like salesman's hyperbole.) It seems to be just the ticket
for a temporary home spray booth project. The price seems to be about
the same as other paints. The primer is about $140/gallon. The color
coats run $230 to $338/gallon depending on the color. Most are $250 -
$270/gallon. So I'm guessing about $800 total for the paint for my
plane. With the spraygun, paint booth, other chemicals, I'll probably
spend $1500 to paint the plane. I don't look forward to this, but if it
turns out well, I'll be glad to tell people I did it myself.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: Stewart Systems waterborne urethane |
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Yes, they are the same. Apparently Stewarts acquired AFS.
Todd
Do not archive
[quote] --
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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