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GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Landing Practices

I am new at taildragging and am having a problem doing three point landings  in that I am stalling out a litte too high each time and bouncing.  I  attribute this to being used to a 172 where I physically sit higher because of  the bigger plane.  Is it best to try to land with a little  power like  in a wheel landing then backing off the power and pulling back on the stick  after the main gear is on the runway or maybe even just continue with a full  wheel landing?

  [quote][b]

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: Landing Practices

If you do a wheelie you decide to make a wheelie before you land, and same  with a 3-point landing.

  

 When you do a  wheelie, at the moment the tire just barley touch the  asphalt or grass, you pull the throttle and move the stick an inch or two  forward, then keep the tail up until you have full down elevator, when the tail  start to come down you firmly apply full up elevator.

  

 On a 3-point, you let the speed bleed of, with stick slowly backward,  without ballooning or touching the ground until it stall from 3 inch alt.

  

 And keep the rudder in motion. 

  

 Jan

 [quote]   ---

GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: Landing Practices

It's that last 3 inches that's getting me.  It ends up about two feet  of fall and what seems like ten feet of bounce.  Luckily she has plenty of  power to get out of it.

  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Landing Practices

There are some take offs and Landings here    http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/    

 scroll down the left side near bottom 

 Kitfox Movie Fresh from the Trailer Park.  

DOWNLOAD  NOW  17 mgs. 

right clik save as.........  

  

Hope that helps  

  

  

Dave 

  

 

 [quote]   ---

_________________
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wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Landing Practices

I had the same problem when I transitioned to the kitfox (still bites me occasionally). I eventually remembered something my instructor told me. Rather than trying to judge where the ground is right under me, look strait ahead to the end of the runway. I'm close to the ground when the picture out the front of the window starts to look the way it does when I'm on the ground. That helped me to get more consistent but I didn't really start getting smooth landings until I'd just done a whole bunch of them. No substitute for practice.

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am new at taildragging and am having a problem doing three point landings in that I am stalling out a litte too high each time and bouncing. I attribute this to being used to a 172 where I physically sit higher because of the bigger plane. Is it best to try to land with a little power like in a wheel landing then backing off the power and pulling back on the stick after the main gear is on the runway or maybe even just continue with a full wheel landing?

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

This sounds like me early on.  My glasses were the progressive type bifocals 

which give no peripheral correction at all.  I had a real hard time finding 

the ground.  That said, it seems that if you are bouncing after the wheels 

touch, you are not in a true three point.  Typically when this happens, you 

stall with the tail up a bit and when the mains touch, the tailwheel drops 

increasing the angle of attack and you are flying again at the new angle.



You might check to see that you are full stick back in the stall and also 

there have been issues about inability to get the tail down - inadequate 

elevator authority.  Lots of guys have taped the gap to increase elevator 

authority.  In short, others have had this issue and it is not necessarily 

the fault of the pilot.



Lowell

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

Lowell,



Did you see that video?   Would taping my gaps  help me Lowell?



Also a good technique is same as glassy water landing........ slow decent 

and fly to ground

Dave

---

GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

I like the slow decent, fly it to the ground technique.  That was  about what I had decided would work best for me.  I don't know what "taping  my gap" means, though.

  [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

At 08:52 AM 10/30/2006, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am new at taildragging and am having a problem doing three point landings in that I am stalling out a litte too high each time and bouncing.  I attribute this to being used to a 172 where I physically sit higher because of the bigger plane.  Is it best to try to land with a little  power like in a wheel landing then backing off the power and pulling back on the stick after the main gear is on the runway or maybe even just continue with a full wheel landing? 	


 If you pull back on the stick after the mains are on you'll go flying again. If you do a wheel landing you push forward to plant the mains and then keep pushing forward trying to lift the tail until it touches. Then you bring the stick back full. 



 1. Get a copy of "Stick and Rudder" and read it.



 2. Get a copy of "The Compleat Taildragger Pilot" and read it.



 3. Sit in your aircraft on the taxiway and mark three points on the windscreen; two to mark the horizon and two to mark the centerline. The marks for the centerline should then defocus to four when you focus at infinity, with the centerline in the middle of the four dots. Next apply fine line tape lines dot to dot, leaving you with the horizon and a "gun sight" for centerline.



 4. When you land, make sure you are looking primarily right and left and not straight ahead. It's much easier to judge height if you do so. Glance ahead to keep things straight, but you should use right and left for altitude and drift. (Most taildraggers require right and left for everything, as there is literally no view forward.)



 5. Fly down the runway under power at about 5-10 over stall. Keeping everything centered fly the plane down until you just skiff a wheel. Bring it up and try to fly down the length of the runway at 1' or less altitude, slipping the aircraft as required to align with the centerline. If you bounce don't push, just add a little power, get stable, then fly back down to the runway at minimum airspeed. Try to do this without looking forward, or just glancing forward for centerline. If the air's stable, and you're feeling really skilled, bring the speed down to just above stall and float it all the way down the runway. Go around and repeat as required.



 6. Practice, practice, practice!



 

 Guy Buchanan

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.     [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

Missed the video Dave.



I am just reporting the experience of others on the list.  I'm sure someone 

will chime in regarding elevator authority.  I think it can also be a result 

of landing with lots of flaps.  Flaps will tend to pitch the nose down  and 

a bit of up elevator is then needed to hold the nose up.  At the touch down 

point you may run out of elevator, then as before, if the mains touch first, 

the tail will drop and with the increased angle of attack, you are flying 

again.



Lowell

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

Lowell,



A few videos here   http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/

bottom left is one with lot of landings .  I have no  Gap seals and alot or 

take off and landing with flaps , do you think it needs a gap seal ?  And if 

so what will I gain?

Dave

Coffee break at the Trailer park Hangar



Download   4.8 meg

Kitfox Movie Fresh from the Trailer Park.

DOWNLOAD NOW  17 mgs.



right clik save as.........



---

GENTRYLL(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

That video is something else.  I had a lot of takeoffs and landings  that looked like that but they were not planned.  Maybe  someday.

  [quote][b]

GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

I have done a lot of reading and understand the mechanics. Your  explanations on how to get the feel of things make a lot of sense.  I will  be sure to try them next chance I get.  I had this same stalling out a  little too high problem also in both a 150 taildragger and a Citabria.  I  was using the transitions lens also so glasses off now.   

  [quote][b]

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

Darn Guy,



That is what I was going to say, but not nearly as

well.  



Kurt S.



Do not archive



--- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:52 AM 10/30/2006, you wrote:


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   If you pull back on the stick after the mains are on

 you'll go flying 

 again. If you do a wheel landing you push forward to

 plant the mains and 

 then keep pushing forward trying to lift the tail

 until it touches. Then you bring the stick back

full.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 1. Get a copy of "Stick and Rudder" and read it.

 

 2. Get a copy of "The Compleat Taildragger Pilot"

 and read it.

 

 3. Sit in your aircraft on the taxiway and mark

 three points on the 

 windscreen; two to mark the horizon and two to mark

 the centerline. The 

 marks for the centerline should then defocus to four

 when you focus at 

 infinity, with the centerline in the middle of the

 four dots. Next apply 

 fine line tape lines dot to dot, leaving you with

 the horizon and a "gun 

 sight" for centerline.

 

 4. When you land, make sure you are looking

 primarily right and left and 

 not straight ahead. It's much easier to judge height

 if you do so. Glance 

 ahead to keep things straight, but you should use

 right and left for 

 altitude and drift. (Most taildraggers require right

 and left for 

 everything, as there is literally no view forward.)

 

 5. Fly down the runway under power at about 5-10

 over stall. Keeping 

 everything centered fly the plane down until you

 just skiff a wheel. Bring 

 it up and try to fly down the length of the runway

 at 1' or less altitude, 

 slipping the aircraft as required to align with the

 centerline. If you 

 bounce don't push, just add a little power, get

 stable, then fly back down 

 to the runway at minimum airspeed. Try to do this

 without looking forward, 

 or just glancing forward for centerline. If the

 air's stable, and you're 

 feeling really skilled, bring the speed down to just

 above stall and float 

 it all the way down the runway. Go around and repeat

 as required.

 

 6. Practice, practice, practice!

 

 

 Guy Buchanan

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly

 to Bob Ducar.


	




 

Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited 

(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

At 04:03 PM 10/30/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am just reporting the experience of others on the list.  I'm sure someone

will chime in regarding elevator authority.  I think it can also be a result

of landing with lots of flaps.  Flaps will tend to pitch the nose down  and

a bit of up elevator is then needed to hold the nose up.


	


My IV ran out of authority with full flaps until I sealed the elevator gap 

with clear tape. It will go all the way to stall now, power on or off. (My 

CG is about 14.7" and I have my HS as high as it will go.)

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

At 07:43 PM 10/30/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Darn Guy,



That is what I was going to say, but not nearly as

well.


	


Your too kind. :-[

Guy

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

At 07:43 PM 10/30/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Darn Guy,



That is what I was going to say, but not nearly as

well.


	


Oops. You're too kind. :-[



(Man I hate it when I do that. And in public, too.)

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

I guess the best answer to your question.  If it aint broke, don't fix it. 

Gap seals have helped others that have had difficulty getting the tail down 

for full stall landings.



Lowell

do not archive

---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

Heck, I only mess up in public.  Like my best landings

no one ever sees.  But the day I got a crowd.... I hit

that little dip in the grass runway squarely and

bounced 7 times.  (Never over a foot high, but bounce,

bounce, bounce...)



Or the time I tried to do the 1/2 flaps landing on

pavement and dump the flaps to make it stick trick. 

Yanked up instead of pushing down on the handle. 

Straight up 10 feet, hover?  Then a nice recovery

while the next plane could hardly talk for laughing

over the radio.



Forgiven, but not forgotten Guy



Kurt S.



--- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:



...... 

 	  Quote: 	
		   (Man I hate it when I do that. And in public, too.)


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Guy Buchanan

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly

 to Bob Ducar.

 

 Do not archive


	




 

Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New Yahoo.com 

(http://www.yahoo.com/preview)

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: Landing Practices

My old instructor (ex WW2 Spitfire pilot) said always look straight ahead at 

the end of the runway..Never look out the side in case she bolts on you. 

When you see the side markers or side if the stip at shoulder height gently 

out your perifial, pull back. Done me fine for many years/hours. And I wear 

progressives...~j~





You wrote 30 Oct 2006 15:12:40 -0800

4. When you land, make sure you are looking primarily right and left and not 

straight ahead. It's much easier to judge height if you do so. Glance ahead 

to keep things straight, but you should use right and left for altitude and 

drift. (Most taildraggers require right and left for everything, as there is 

literally no view forward.)



5. Fly down the runway under power at about 5-10 over stall. Keeping 

everything centered fly the plane down until you just skiff a wheel. Bring 

it up and try to fly down the length of the runway at 1' or less altitude, 

slipping the aircraft as required to align with the centerline. If you 

bounce don't push, just add a little power, get stable, then fly back down 

to the runway at minimum airspeed. Try to do this without looking forward, 

or just glancing forward for centerline. If the air's stable, and you're 

feeling really skilled, bring the speed down to just above stall and float 

it all the way down the runway. Go around and repeat as required.



6. Practice, practice, practice!

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



_________________________________________________________________

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