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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
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 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: 3 Pointers |
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From: GENTRYLL(at)aol.com (GENTRYLL(at)aol.com)
Subject: Landing Practices
I am new at taildragging and am having a problem doing three point landings
in that I am stalling out a litte too high each time and bouncing. I
attribute this to being used to a 172 where I physically sit higher because of
the
bigger plane. Is it best to try to land with a little power like in a wheel
landing then backing off the power and pulling back on the stick after the
main gear is on the runway or maybe even just continue with a full wheel
landing?
Hi !
I can sympathise with your problem. I remember my transition to tail draggers and it was in my MKIV Kitfox. Yep used to do the same thing. What I eventually worked out for me in my plane anyway was if I can get that stick right back hard into the cushion without the nose flaring high before touch down then it will go just nice. Hope that will work for you.
I had no issues with elevator authority but yes I do believe especially in earlier models gap sealing can be the answer but are you lacking the ability to get the tail down ? As I said I can easilly overdo it and flare high. Also as someone said too much flap might be causing you to not be able to get the tail down. Personally I tend to use just a tiny amount. Actually what I need for trim at about 70 knots.
Also I would comment that I can remember when learning getting the nose too high and about 2ft off the ground. I did this a couple of times before I applied power to sort it. Anyway I just held the stick hard back and it floated down fairly gently but I don't recommend it. However it might not be the end of the world.
By the way it is my personal belief that taildraggers are meant to be 3 pointed and generally speaking this is the easiest way to land them. I feel wheeler landings leave one wide open in a crosswind as the tail drops. Just my idea of things.
Be sure to get that stick right back before touch down and hopefully you'll be right.
Rex.
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GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: 3 Pointers |
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Thanks Rex,
I see from your writing some things I am doing differently. First I am coming in at just over 50 mph. Second, I am using no flaps. With this combination, it doesn't take much to make it stall. I don't think elevator authority is the problem as when I pull it back it drops. I think I am just flaring too high as I am used to being in a bigger, taller plane. I like the idea another fellow sent in of flying just above the runway and down the center until my brain adjust for where bottom really is.
Thanks for the help.
[quote][b]
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dosmythe(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: 3 Pointers |
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You might try the Tapscotte shuffle. This is what my instructor (Bob Tapscotte) taught me and I did it on my first landing. Worked great and gave me the feeling of the runway. Approach for a wheel landing, let the mains touch, keep enough power to maintain flight and easy go around. Let the mains touch every 50 feet or so. This will give you a good feel for where you are in relation to the runway. Keep the power on and just let the mains kiss the runway. The longer the runway the better.
Just a thought,
Don Smythe
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7suds(at)Chartermi.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: 3 Pointers |
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My experience learning to land my Kitfox 4, I would approach at 50 -55 with about 50% Flaps (would help with visability), had a notch on the trim so I knew where to set the trim, would normally do a forward slip to the runway (also helped with visability) and then straighten out and hold off until it settled in, if I did real well the tail wheel would touch just a moment before the mains and I knew I was down, if I flaired to high I would drop a little and bounce, I would then give a little throttle and flair it back in with the throttle. In time I either hit it right or within one bounce. It is all about getting to know your plane. The comment about doing touch and goes down the runway is a great way to get to know your plane, my flying buddy got so proficient with his Kolb he could do touch and gos down the runway while alternating from main tire to main tire, it's all about practicing and knowing your plane.
Good luck and have fun.
[quote] ---
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Beemer
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: 3 Pointers |
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Transitioning from a 172 to the ‘fox is a trial and error affair. I did it, and had to get used to feeling like my butt was gonna scrap the ground. The only “real” way to overcome it is to practice, practice, PRACTICE!
Don’t forget to transition your visual focus to the far end of the runway as you flare. And try to pay close attention to your peripheral vision cues. With practice, you can get pretty good at judging the flare height. You just have to re-cage your MK1 eyeball. Airspeed management is the key to a smooth arrival. If you’re too fast, the stick will require a more deft touch to keep from rising, and if too slow, the bottom will fall out faster. The ‘fox will decelerate quickly in the flare, more so than the spam cans, but you just get used to it. After a bit of thinking, I found a procedure that worked for me, and my landings got much better. I spend quite a bit of time in the pattern, ‘cuz I find it fun in the Kitfox.
Try not to move the nose up or down in the flare. Put it in the correct position on the horizon, and hold it there. Don’t push the nose down if it balloons, and don’t raise it too much to soften a high decent rate. Just hold it there, and use pressure on the stick, not movement. Sometimes, a little (!) power will arrest the decent rate to an acceptable level. But you increase the landing distance by doing so.
With flaps, my 2 will not quite get the tail down for a 3 point. So I usually leave up for most landings, especially in a crosswind. I use them to steepen my approach if high, then bring them back up over the fence. I can still land very short with them up. I don’t find the ‘fox flaps particularly useful, but YMMV on that.
The gap seals helped some, and I like them. But I didn’t notice a “night-and-day” difference with them. The cost to benefit ratio is great for the gap seals (2.99 and 30 minutes), so go for it. It can’t hurt.
Hoping that helps,
Bradley
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GENTRYLL(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:33 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: 3 Pointers
Thanks Rex,
I see from your writing some things I am doing differently. First I am coming in at just over 50 mph. Second, I am using no flaps. With this combination, it doesn't take much to make it stall. I don't think elevator authority is the problem as when I pull it back it drops. I think I am just flaring too high as I am used to being in a bigger, taller plane. I like the idea another fellow sent in of flying just above the runway and down the center until my brain adjust for where bottom really is.
Thanks for the help.
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[quote][b]
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_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia |
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