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Fuel Flow transducer
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peter.rees01(at)tiscali.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Gents



I'm looking at fitting a Fuel Computer to G-MFHI - I've got my eye on the

FF-3 from MGL but I've been advised that the flow transducer that they supply

would not be approved by the PFA. From what I've picked up, they are happy

with the Floscan 201 transducer.



Does anyone have any recomendations for any different (yet still reasonable

priced) fuel computer and if any other transducers are going to be acceptable

to the PFA. If the Flowscan is the way to go, is there an agent in the UK

or do I need to get one from the US. Any indication of the price for the

transdicer would be very helpful as well.



Regards



Peter



___________________________________________________________



Tiscali Unlimited Broadband with FREE weekend calls only 12.99!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Peter

Floscan transducers are used an cars and boats too, have a search for 

another supplier, you don't need to pay for the coat of certification.

Grand Rapids can supply and their engine monitor is excellent anyway. It 

includes flow monitoring and will nudge you if fuel pressure starts 

getting low

Graham



peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Gents



I'm looking at fitting a Fuel Computer to G-MFHI - I've got my eye on the

FF-3 from MGL but I've been advised that the flow transducer that they supply

would not be approved by the PFA. From what I've picked up, they are happy

with the Floscan 201 transducer.

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

--

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

When I bought mine about 8 years ago I collected from the wholesaler in

Seattle. It cost $162. Before you commit yourself to £182 you may like

to consider importing directly as the item is quite small and light for

airfreighting. I have an alternative suggestion as well. I am going to

Seattle on Wednesday and could collect for you assuming they have stock

available. Contact me direct at nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk if I can be of

assistance. 



If any Europa builders/owners in the Seattle area would like to meet up

whilst I am in Seattle I will have Thursday and most of Friday free.



Regards



Nigel Charles 

--

s.vestuti(at)virgin.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Hi Peter, sounds like a good offer from Nigel to collect the Transducer for you, failing that here are the details of the UK agent , Lyndhurst Touchdown Services Ltd

jerry(at)ban-bi.com      www.ban-bi.com     tel +44 (0)23 8028 2619

i paid a total UK cost of about 150 UK pounds all inc. for the 201,



Steve Vestuti #573

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

That's cheap in comparison to a blocked sensor and fuel starvation, as

offered by the alternatives!



There is a prospectively 'cheap' Floscan currently at :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&item 0040605291&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1



Duncan McF

do not archive

---

johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Hi Peter,



If you still have the flexibility to make this choice for your panel, my recommendation is to use a Grand Rapids EIS 2004 engine monitor with the fuel flow option which is another USD375.00. See http://www.grtavionics.com/model_2004.htm  The EIS is one of the best instruments in my panel. Rock solid performance and reliability. The fuel flow totaliser is accurate to within 0.1 gallons after calibration which makes for great peace of mind on fuel remaining and the endurance is calculated for you. I  have also found that the EIS total engine time recorder is very reliable. After 500 + hours, it is within a few decimals of my Hobbs meter reading. Next time around, I would not bother with a Hobbs. Let me know if you have any questions.



Cheers, John

N262WF, mono XS, 912S

Mooresville, North Carolina



**************

From: peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk

Subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Gents

I'm looking at fitting a Fuel Computer to G-MFHI - I've got my eye on the

FF-3 from MGL but I've been advised that the flow transducer that they supply

would not be approved by the PFA. From what I've picked up, they are happy

with the Floscan 201 transducer.

Does anyone have any recomendations for any different (yet still reasonable

priced) fuel computer and if any other transducers are going to be acceptable

to the PFA. If the Flowscan is the way to go, is there an agent in the UK

or do I need to get one from the US. Any indication of the price for the

transdicer would be very helpful as well.

Regards Peter

******************

hdwysong(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Hello Peter,



We're using a Floscan 231 with an MGL data acquisition unit 

(RDAC X) on our Rotax 914 setup.  No worries!  You just have 

to make a few "mods" to the installation.



The 231 flow sensor expects 12-15 VDC power instead of the 5 

VDC provided by the MGL FF instruments.  We simply tied the 

sensor to the 12 VDC power line for the FF instrument.  We 

also installed a 10K pullup resistor on the FF instrument 

between the flow signal input line and +5 VDC line.



The 231 outputs a square wave with 19800 pulses per gallon. 

   Convert this to pulses per liter (~5231) and set the "K" 

factor for the FF instrument accordingly.



Our source for the Floscan 231 was Scuba Steve's Marine 

Outlet.  Less than $100 US and he ships internationally.



http://www.scubasteve.biz/store/manufacturers/floscan/floscan.htm



Good luck!



D



-----------------------------------

 >

 > I'm looking at fitting a Fuel Computer to G-MFHI - I've 

got my eye on the

 > FF-3 from MGL but I've been advised that the flow 

transducer that they

 > supply would not be approved by the PFA. From what I've 

picked up, they

 > are

 > happy with the Floscan 201 transducer.

 >

 > Does anyone have any recomendations for any different 

(yet still

 > reasonable

 > priced) fuel computer and if any other transducers are 

going to be

 > acceptable to the PFA. If the Flowscan is the way to go, 

is there an agent

 > in the UK or do I need to get one from the US. Any 

indication of the price

 > for the transdicer would be very helpful as well.

 >

 > Regards

 >

 > Peter

 >

 > _______

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

How did you compensate for the high volume of fuel return on the 914 fuel 

installation.



regards,



Mike



---

hdwysong(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Hi Mike -



Our plumbing is "nonstandard" with the 914 fuel return line plumbed into a "T" fitting that's installed downstream from a single Floscan 231.  The other side of the "T" feeds the pumps/check valves.  In our configuration, the 231 indicates the fuel being used by the engine (feed minus return)... which is low flow volume compared to the total flow around the circuit. 



However, we did run our 914 without the "T" installed when it was on a test stand with the 231 inline with the fuel supply.  I don't recall what the total flow measurement was in this config but I'm certain that the 231 handled it ( i.e. - the reading didn't saturate).  I bet I can dig the number out of the test data if you're interested.



D



[quote] How did you compensate for the high volume of fuel return on the 914 fuel

installation.



regards,



Mike[b]

rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Team, I have a request -



All this talk of fuel flow transducers has got me thinking

(a dangerous and likely to be expensive) activity 



I feel a fuel flow meter would be very useful but I have

all the other VDO gauges so i don't need a fancy EIS.



Is there a stand alone fuel flow gauge which uses the

Flowscan transducer ? I imagine it would be digital but

analog would be fine.



Any users out there ? Supplier ? UK or US ?  Gauge only,

if i can get the transducer separately ?



TIA



Richard

G-OWWW High Cross, Herts

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:15 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Richard,



I have recently purchased a JPI FS-450 from Mendelssohn Pilot Supplies in

the UK.  The reason for choosing this one is that it comes with Floscan

transducers and it is FAA/TSO approved so I am hoping that the PFA will have

no problems with it.  As is usual, there are many more/cheaper fuel flow

indicating systems out there.  



Brian Davies



--

jodel(at)nildram.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

--

jodel(at)nildram.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Brian



I submitted a mod application at the end of August for mine but I'm still

waiting for a response.



Simon



--

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Hello Richard



"Is there a stand alone fuel flow gauge which uses the Flowscan transducer

? I imagine it would be digital but analog would be fine.



Any users out there ? Supplier ? UK or US ?  Gauge only, if i can get the

transducer separately ?"



I purchased a Analogue 1+1/4" unit from UMA, it comes with a Flowscan 201

(I forget the letter that goes with the 201). I had a few lines printed on

face to equate to approx 75% 100% and 115% for my 914. Had Electro

Luminance installed to match the rest of my panel. I handled the return

flow by purchasing a Matronics unit (our list Host) that subtracts the

return flow and comes with a 201.



Ron Parigoris

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Hi Simon,



I submitted mine last week.  The mod approval system does not seem to have

improved yet!   



Brian



Do not Archive



--

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Fuel flow transducer

Try http://www.buy-ei.com/index.htm



I have one and it works perfectly.



(Is already PFA approved)



regards,



Mike



Do not archive

regards,

---

Paul Sistern

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow transducer

Hi,



I'm a dealer for MGL Stratomaster, see www.partsforaircraft.co.uk  I'm also a Jabiru builder and owner/flyer (sorry it's not a Europa but my garage wasn't big enough). I'm suprised by some of the comments made here about the flow sender. The current model being supplied has a fuel bypass chamber to prevent blockage should the rotor become jammed. The by-pass chamber is clearly visible by looking down the inlet pipe. I have one in my aircraft and my PFA inspector has accepted it. It's the same sender that ST Aviation (UK Jabiru dealer) supply with their in-house fuel computer. 



There was an issue with the older style rotating vane senders where no facility existed for flow by-pass should the rotor get blocked or jammed by debris in the fuel. The PFA required (at the time) a fuel by-pass system for that type. In any case, a fuel filter should be fitted in the fuel line and it should be installed before the fuel sender regardless of type.



Oh, and by the way, the Stratomaster fuel guages will work with any sender and the 2 1/4" FF-2 and 3 1/2" FF-3 can handle differential flow created by Rotax fuel return.



Regards,

Paul

G-CBKY

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: Fuel Flow transducer

Paul,

ST Aviation also offer the alternative of a Floscan sender with their fuel 

computer.

If your sender is the same as ST's standard offering, then 'good luck and 

stick to Avgas'. There has been one Europa forced landing (='crash', see 

AAIB reports) due to the use of one of these particular sensors 

(rust/magnetite particles accumulated on the magnets in the sensor, causing 

further restriction to the fuel flow) despite a filter being present 

upstream. Even without the restrictor jet, the internal bore of the device 

is only about 4mm (i.e. the internal step that the jet would sit on, not the 

1/4" quoted for the ID of the  inlet stub).



 PFA Inspectors aren't cleared to sign-off major mods, the definition of 

which include such changes to the fuel system, see:

http://www.pfa.org.uk/Engineering%20pdfs/Mods%20and%20Repairs/TL%203.09%20Classification%20of%20Mods%20and%20Repairs.pdf



 I also know that PFA Engineering have been less than happy about the use of 

one of these sensors on a Jabiru Rans S6; I think this may by now be 

cleared. But 80hp only, Avgas usage and much lower 'landing' energy might 

have been a consideration in this.



Duncan McF.

---

Paul Sistern

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow transducer

Duncan,



Thank you very much for that information. I will advise people accordingly and investigate further via the PFA. 



The option of Floscan with the ST unit is not listed on their current price list. I bought the ST unit with my Jabiru kit in 2000 as an approved option. I guess that changing from that old sender to a new MGL supplied sender was not seen as a mod but as a replacement (rightly or wrongly)by my inspector. Again, I will investigate further via the PFA.



As an MGL Stratomaster dealer I am glad to say that the fuel flow instruments are sold separately from the sender. The choice is with the buyer as to what sender he uses. Floscan sounds like a good option.



Regards,

Paul

G-CBKY

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