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Engine trouble shoots

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wvu(at)ameritel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the  summary.  I would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the  troublesome numbers.

  

 1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi  with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?

 2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags.  Normal.

 3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up  with this?

 4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first  inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?

 5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm  before the engine quits - engine runs lean. Richened the adjustment on the fuel  servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the engine to run  rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was pro'ly  too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct direction?

 6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT  EIS.  Hall effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch  didn't appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.

  

 BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.

  

 Anh

 #141



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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

DejaVu wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the summary.  I 

 would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the troublesome numbers.

  

 1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi 

 with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?


	


Way low...but do you trust the calibration of your sensor,

and what sensor and EIS are you using.  With a change of

only .1 psi, it's either Waaaaaay off in scale or there's

something wrong with the sensor/wiring.   You should be able to

get 30+ psi with the electric boost pump, and it'll run in the mid

20's with just the diaphragm pump.

 	  Quote: 	
		   2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags. Normal.

 3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up with this?


	


You may need to run it more to figure this one out, but those

cylinders could be running too lean.  Is that full rich

mixture?  If so, are you sure you're getting full travel

on the cable or full mixture?

 	  Quote: 	
		   4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first 

 inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm 

 before the engine quits - engine runs lean. Richened the adjustment on 

 the fuel servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the 

 engine to run rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was 

 pro'ly too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct 

 direction?


	


Don't know about the adjustment, but you definitely want a

small RPM rise when you get it leaned way out.



 	  Quote: 	
		   6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT EIS.  Hall 

 effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch didn't 

 appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.


	


Ahhhh, the GRT EIS....  You may not be charging, if you're only reading

11.7V and that number is real.  Try a regular voltmeter on it once

while running and see if it matches.  If so, you may need to dig

into why it isn't charging.  Now that I know it's the GRT EIS,

I can say that there's definitely a lot of scale factor and

offset programming to do.  Make sure all of the inputs are wired

into the proper inputs, but every sensor comes with a scale factor

and offset setting to use.  I don't have the standard GRT fuel pressure

sensor, so don't trust mine, but here's an example of mine.

Not sure if it's current though.  Note that depending on your software

version, you may not have all inputs active....not all GRT EIS's are

sold with every function.  You may want to take the software version

and call GRT and verify what all is included with your version.

The fuel flow cal's are definitely not calibrated at this point,

so this config is at least 145 hours old.



Aux1	ManP

Aux2	LEFT

Aux3	RITE

Aux4	Fpsi

Aux5	AMPS

Aux6	

Units	IFG

FC1	0

FC2	0

FloCal	200

FloCalR	0

Tach P/R	3	(used on Lightspeed)

Peak	10

Max Fuel	60

1SF	198

1OFF	64

2SF	44

2OFF	119

3SF	47

3OFF	127

4SF	63

4OFF	47

5SF	93

5OFF	177

6SF	0

6OFF	0

I/D	DIIDII

+/-	+--+++

Good luck on it and if I can be of help let me know.  1625 is

a great weight.



Tim

do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		    

 BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.

  

 Anh

 #141

 

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

DejaVu wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the summary.  

 I would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the troublesome 

 numbers.

  

 1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi 

 with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?

Right for carb, low by factor of ten for injection.
	




 	  Quote: 	
		   2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags. Normal.

 3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up with this?

Not too high. EGT relates to mixture, not power output. You can achieve 
	


same EGT at 1700 as at cruise, but at 1700 it isn't important, because 

you are at way below 50 percent power.

 	  Quote: 	
		   4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first 

 inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?

Yes, you are putting more load on the engine with constant power.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm 

 before the engine quits - engine runs lean. Richened the adjustment on 

 the fuel servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the 

 engine to run rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was 

 pro'ly too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct 

 direction?

Something else is involved. Adjusting the idle mixture one turn should 
	


not affect your partial power much, but if you have Bendix/Precision 

injection 1 full turn is too much. Make adjustments one notch at a time. 

Quarter turn is likely what you needed.

 	  Quote: 	
		   6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT EIS.  

 Hall effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch 

 didn't appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.

  

 BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.

  

 Anh

 #141

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:56 am Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

You might want to wait before making idle mixture adjustments if you have new engine.  My engine idled really rough during the ground run ups but did fine after the engine loosened up.

do not archive

 Rob Kermanj



 



On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

DejaVu wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the summary.  I would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the troublesome numbers.

 1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?

 	
Right for carb, low by factor of ten for injection.

  	  Quote: 	
		  2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags. Normal.

3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up with this?

 	
Not too high. EGT relates to mixture, not power output. You can achieve same EGT at 1700 as at cruise, but at 1700 it isn't important, because you are at way below 50 percent power.

  	  Quote: 	
		  4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?

 	
Yes, you are putting more load on the engine with constant power.

  	  Quote: 	
		  5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm before the engine quits - engine runs lean. Richened the adjustment on the fuel servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the engine to run rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was pro'ly too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct direction?

 	
Something else is involved. Adjusting the idle mixture one turn should not affect your partial power much, but if you have Bendix/Precision injection 1 full turn is too much. Make adjustments one notch at a time. Quarter turn is likely what you needed.

  	  Quote: 	
		  6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT EIS.  Hall effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch didn't appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.

 BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.

 Anh

#141

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

DejaVu wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                          Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the  summary.  I would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the  troublesome numbers.

      

     1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi  with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?

   

 	
 Yes

  	  Quote: 	
		         2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags.  Normal.

   

 	
 Yup

  	  Quote: 	
		         3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up  with this?

   

 	
 EGT is useless as a finite number.  Too many variables exist to know what the 'real number' is.  Location of the probe is the biggest variable.  I've seen changes in EGT in different spots around the tube as sell as distance from the flange.

  	  Quote: 	
		         4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first  inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?

   

 	
 Could be .... read on!

  	  Quote: 	
		         5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm  before the engine quits - engine runs lean.

   

 	
 Maybe.

  	  Quote: 	
		         Richened the adjustment on the fuel  servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the engine to run  rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was pro'ly  too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct direction?

   

 	
 Well, not necessarily.  The engine could have been too rich to start with and didn't get to a good, lean mixture before idle cutoff.  Flies in the face of conventional wisdom, I know.  You'll have to play with this and experiment a lot.  Have someone look at the exhaust when you start up/shut down.  You may be able to see black smoke if it's rich.  Small R/L changes and slow (real slow) mixture control changes will make the task take longer but are more meaningful.  Changes in EGT will tell you a lot.  Let us know just what the outcome is!

  	  Quote: 	
		         6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT  EIS.  Hall effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch  didn't appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.

   

 	
 Best guess is that you don't have 'field' voltage.  You should be able to measure the same 11.7V (or real close) at the field terminal, with the master and alt switch on.    	  Quote: 	
		         BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.

   

 	
 I hope someone's keeping track of this item!  It'll be interesting to see how empty weight changes the performance.

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]        

     Anh

     #141

   

        	  Quote: 	
		  

	
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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: Engine trouble shoots

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu

 Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:03 PM

 To: RV10

 Subject: Engine trouble shoots  

Ran my engine again today with two new Slicks.  Below is the summary.  I would appreciate if anyone can provide insights to the troublesome numbers.  

1. Fuel Pressure read 2.2psi at 1700rpm with boost pump off.  2.3psi with the boost pump on.  A little low don't you think?  If it truly is that number, that would definitely be a little low.  My question would be, “are you absolutely sure you have the right sensor and the right sensor setting in your engine monitor?”  Would the engine even start with this low of fuel pressure.  

2. Mags check resulted in about 100rpm drop on both mags. Normal.  This doesn’t seem normal if your fuel pressure is truly 2.2PSI.  Again, check that fuel pressure sensor.  

3.  EGT on only #2 and #4 are high ~1500deg at 1700rpm. What up with this?  Try swapping sensors on 1&5 with 2&4 and see if you still get the same high readings.  If so, then try hooking up the wires for 2 to the sensor for 6 (while it is still in 6) and see if it still reads that high.  If so, then you either have bad sensors or bad wiring.  

4.  When cycling the prop lever MAP does not decrease during the first inch as I was pulling the lever back. Is this normal?  No clue whatsoever.  

5.  Pulling the mixture to idle cutoff resulted in no increase in rpm before the engine quits - engine runs lean. Richened the adjustment on the fuel servo one full turn in the direction of the "R-->"caused the engine to run rough and quit after a few seconds at 1700rpm.  That was pro'ly too aggressive an adjustment but did I turn it in the correct direction?  

6.  Electrical system read 11.7V and -4Amp as measure by GRT EIS.  Hall effect sensor is installed on battery side. Cycling ALT switch didn't appear to make a difference. Will check wiring.  The Alt field (as Van’s calls it) switch makes about 3-5 Amps difference in my current draw on the Dynon ammeter shunt.  Are you sure the alternator is working?  If not, that would account for your low voltage, probably.  You shouldn’t be drawing 4 amps when the alternator is running, unless your sensor is in a place where you would see all current draw in the system not accounting for the amount of charging you are getting.  We have ours setup between the battery and the bus/alternator (it sounds like this is where yours is) and it shows total/overall current into or out of the battery.  

BTW, she weighed in at 1625lbs.  With or without the pilot?  J  

Anh  

#141  

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 11/3/2006

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