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Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" 

Kind of sick of this of this topic. (thank you-thank you Dave!!!)

Bottom line----

If you not happy with LSA then go for it .

If not  --well stay  N numbered

All I see is  LSA is a way to guys who lost aviation medical to fly with a 

limit of 1320 lbs on wheels.  But i stand to be corrected.

 

 early message posted by me:



 Question from Steve/ Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules.

 Hi Steve.

 This is a heavy question, why don't you ask someone from the EAA. you would probably get the close to perfect answer.

  

 It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...

  

 You are asking pilots and not someone close to the rule making!

  

 Today's posting

 If someone from the EAA office is listening in, please contact Steve and explain the real Sport Pilot Rule.

 Does someone from the list know who the gent is at EAA, that we can identify him and put him in contact with Steve.

 I think this would be far more beneficial than going around the list for weeks on end.

  

 Steve.

 Don't' interoperate my posting incorrectly (don't get me wrong).

 A very good question, but am not learning much. Getting many interpretations, but alas' slowly getting confused and bewildered!

  I think you could contact EAA, Sport Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft Hotline 877/FLY1232 (SportPilot(at)EAA.org (SportPilot(at)EAA.org) )



 Why not try these people for their best interpretation of the rules. I understand the EAA assisted with the making of them, so they should know best.

 Again, best of luck with your search for the truth.

 Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta.

  

 Do Not Archive

  [quote][b]

84KF
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: Re:

Here is a simple solution . Do not click on the subject, or follow my posts: Can you “interpret” what I’m saying? Don’t like what’s on TV? Turn it off. 



“If someone from the EAA office is listening in, please contact Steve and explain the real Sport Pilot Rule.” 



   If you are so sure of YOUR convictions we would like to read them. Please tell us why, and provide  complete references to back up your statements.  This post subject has been in reference to misinformation that is clarified completely in the:

Federal Register 

Certification of Aircraft and Airman for the Operation of Light-Sport aircraft; Final Rule. Dated July 27, 2004



A very good question, but am not learning much.  



“but am not learning much“.?   Ahh…  it’s the old “I’ll just blame the teacher for my kids lack of education” reasoning

 

 "Getting many interpretations, but alas' slowly getting confused and bewildered!"



    This is not my fault. I am not giving “many”  interpretations”. 

You just rely on many interpretation” as being accurate. How can there be more than one?

"Why not try these people for their best interpretation of the rules"



     There is NO interpretation  necessary, Just the ability to read and add.



 While we’re here….

Kitfoxaircraft has spoken…..  

http://kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2



What is the gross weight of a Kitfox? 

“The current Kitfox has been structurally tested at 1550 lbs gross weight at +6g and -3g Load Limit. With an empty weight of 750 lbs, it can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross with a 570 lb or better useful load. Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit and have an 800 lb useful load.”



It just said:

a)  structurally tested at 1550 lbs gross weight” (design weight) .

b) can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross  

c) Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit 



How can they sell a 1550 lb plane for light sport privileges?? 

  Because “it can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross with a 570 lb or better useful load”



 NOT certified, not certificated, …operated, as is, “With an empty weight of 750 lbs” (or less).

Got a private pilot cert?  “Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit and have an 800 lb useful load.”



 Can you hear me now?

             steve

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

STEVE

this is getting as stupid as the [ POT SCRUBBERS] . If you want to try and 

make someone believe you then just call your local FISDO or the FAA in OK 

CITY. and argue .

   IF you dont do that then I guess you are scared of the real answer .



Tired of the drivel and pot scrubbing



John Perry

Kitfox 2 N718PD

TD/ Straight floats

Hot PInk IVO



DO NOT ARCHIVE

---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

Steve, no need to get upset over this.  You need to understand that what you

are telling us is contrary to what we've been lead to believe from the

git-go and it's difficult for all of us to take this as gospel without some

confirmation from the source of the rule.  I suggested EAA because they are

definitely on our side and they were also very instrumental in formulating

the rule.  Like I said previously, I feel what you posted has merit.

However, I personally would like to see something from those "on high" that

reinforces your interpretation.

I personally have been very interested in this thread because I've learned a

lot more about Sport Pilot than I would have otherwise.  I think it is

something that will affect us all at one time or another whether SP, PP,

Com, or ATP.

Sincerely,

Deke Morisse



---

84KF
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: Re:

"IF you dont do that then I guess you are scared of the real answer "



Kitfoxaircraft has spoken…..  

http://kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2



What is the gross weight of a Kitfox? 

“The current Kitfox has been structurally tested at 1550 lbs gross weight at +6g and -3g Load Limit. With an empty weight of 750 lbs, it can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross with a 570 lb or better useful load. Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit and have an 800 lb useful load.”



It just said:

a)  structurally tested at 1550 lbs gross weight” (design weight) .

b) can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross  

c) Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit 



How can they sell a 1550 lb plane for light sport privileges??  Because “it can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross with a 570 lb or better useful load”

 NOT certified, not certificated, …operated, as is, “With an empty weight of 750 lbs” (or less).

Got a private pilot cert?  “Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit and have an 800 lb useful load.”

Can you hear me now?

steve

Ya, I guess Kitfoxaircraft has their head up their &%# too eh?

steve

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

Sorry you are bothered by posts that don't reflect your current 

interests, John. But sometimes a thread sparks some interest in someone 

that wouldn't have otherwise been alerted to it. I started the PS 

(won't say the whole words) thread because I had a need to know. By the 

time it was over (if it is), I was getting sick of it too. But thanks 

to several on this group, I now have a successful...I think...heater in 

my plane. That's the way this group is supposed to work. I for one, am 

sick of reading about setting props, and this current "beat the FAA 

rule" weight issue.  I CAN be sick  of it, because I have a fixed-pitch 

prop, and I'm willing to fly my plane at the weight it was intended, so 

these topics don't interest me, but I can "change channels" as was 

suggested....or not turn the TV on.



Lynn

On Sunday, November 5, 2006, at 11:31  AM, john perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   this is getting as stupid as the [ POT SCRUBBERS] .Tired of the drivel 

 and pot scrubbing



 John Perry

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

hey Pot scrubbers was a great topic  and a good test for some .

I have 2 more installs this week and both owners are as happy as a pig in 

the mud.

I only used SS pads  so far but I do have copper ones but have not tried 

yet.



Dave



BTW   I have not hooked up my scat lines of muffler yet to cabin as I am 

only running heat from my scoop of  the back of radiator so far for heat but 

the coldest i been out is about 25F in the last week of flying and that was 

near 10 hours. Not frozen yet.



---

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
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Highest rated on youtube

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

I don't think John is bothered by posts not necessarily in his interest. 

The forum is for all our benefit.  I read every post even though I don't 

have a Subaru, Jabiru or a 582.



What to me, at least,becomes tiresome is posts from some who have no 

personal experience in the area of the question and are still quite willing 

to give their best guess.  This requires some real sorting out and is for 

practical purposes extremely burdensom to those that may be asking from a 

new to Kitrfox perspective.



Many questions are from people who need real information, sort of like 

"facts" - the recent spinner question as an example.  The original poster 

asked a reasonable question.  I didn't respond because my set-up is not the 

same as his and didn't want to confuse the issue.  That thinking didn't 

concern others and one post essentially giving the final answer ended with a 

confession that he didn't even have a spinner.



Were I new to Kitfox, I wouldn't find all the various "opinions" helpful.  I 

would want real info from real people with real experience with MY Issue.



Regarding the pot scrubbers - yes it was  beaten to death.  Likely every 

possible variation of the idea was posted, yet the most widely accepted 

reason for the potscrubber in the heat muff, mentioned early on was not 

discussed at all, i.e. slowing the air passage through the muff, and whether 

more than one would be better than just one.



And regarding LSA.  No amount of argument will change anyones mind.  We have 

our trusted sources for our information, most of them deeply involved in 

it's formulation, not just someone who just possibly bought the wrong 

airplane and is trying to develop a consensus.  Let's all just live with it 

and hopefully go on to something else.



One more thing.  I am getting the distinct impression that the more vocal 

guys on the list now are not builders, but at least second owners of their 

Kitfox.  Am I wrong in this, I hope so.



I remember the Kitfox list as a source of real help when I was early into 

Kitfox.  Lately it seems to have become more of a chat room where lots of 

posts are just made to fill in an otherwise boring day.  The truth really is 

out there.  Lots of information on Google and other good sources, but then 

the facts stop the chat so lets ignore the facts and just chat - lots more 

fun for some, I guess.



 Maybe I am just getting old or maybe even getting a life, but,  I'm sure 

getting tired of it all.



Lowell



---

JimmieBlackwell(at)austin
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

I agree with most of what Lowell is saying.



This list has been most helpful to me when I was building a Kitfox and when 

I was rebuilding my current Kitfox.  It does seem that some of  the 

questions, especially by newcomers,  that need to be answered go largely 

unanswered and over shadowed by the arguing back and forth on subjects that 

get beat to death several times over.  I do not plead innocent, but will try 

hard to stick to the real issues and purpsoe of this list.



Hopefully, everyone will revisit the real purpose of this list.  To me that 

is to help each other as much as possible whether we are an original builder 

or a second owner of a Kitfox.  I know that many of you have helped me and 

even though I am currently just a second owner I believe that some of my 

knowledge has helped others.  I will continue trying to do so.



Jimmie

Kitfox Speedster, Second Owner

---

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

---

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: "maximum takeoff weight" Page by page. Please end!

Thank you Lowell, 

  ...well said!  Too many people out there trying to be the Shell Answer Man...commenting because they love to hear (see) themselves think.

  Dan



Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" 



I don't think John is bothered by posts not necessarily in his interest. 

The forum is for all our benefit. I read every post even though I don't 

have a Subaru, Jabiru or a 582.



What to me, at least,becomes tiresome is posts from some who have no 

personal experience in the area of the question and are still quite willing 

to give their best guess. This requires some real sorting out and is for 

practical purposes extremely burdensom to those that may be asking from a 

new to Kitrfox  perspective.



Many questions are from people who need real information, sort of like 

"facts" - the recent spinner question as an example. The original poster 

asked a reasonable question. I didn't respond because my set-up is not the 

same as his and didn't want to confuse the issue. That thinking didn't 

concern others and one post essentially giving the final answer ended with a 

confession that he didn't even have a spinner.



Were I new to Kitfox, I wouldn't find all the various "opinions" helpful. I 

would want real info from real people with real experience with MY Issue.



Regarding the pot scrubbers - yes it was beaten to death. Likely every 

possible variation of the idea was posted, yet the most widely accepted 

reason for the potscrubber in the heat muff, mentioned early on was not 

discussed at all, i.e. slowing the air passage through the muff, and whether 

more than one would be better than just one.



And  regarding LSA. No amount of argument will change anyones mind. We have 

our trusted sources for our information, most of them deeply involved in 

it's formulation, not just someone who just possibly bought the wrong 

airplane and is trying to develop a consensus. Let's all just live with it 

and hopefully go on to something else.



One more thing. I am getting the distinct impression that the more vocal 

guys on the list now are not builders, but at least second owners of their 

Kitfox. Am I wrong in this, I hope so.



I remember the Kitfox list as a source of real help when I was early into 

Kitfox. Lately it seems to have become more of a chat room where lots of 

posts are just made to fill in an otherwise boring day. The truth really is 

out there. Lots of information on Google and other good sources, but then 

the facts stop the chat so lets ignore the facts and just chat - lots more 

fun for some, I guess.



Maybe I am  just getting old or maybe even getting a life, but, I'm sure 

getting tired of it all.



Lowell



---

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