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Model III-A??

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

To all the Kitfox flyers...



My kitfox is registered as a model III-A.  The serial # is 736.  I was going

through some of the paper work the other day and noticed the original order

was for a model II.  



I am wondering where I can go to find out what has to be done to the plane

to increase the MTOW from 950 to 1050 safely.  Transport Canada has agreed

to bump it up if I really want it.  I would like to do that only if it is

safe.



The question is this: Is my plane actually a model 2  1/2???  It has the

separate engine mount and the wing tanks with the small header tank under

the panel.  The wings are concave on the bottoms.  At the time the plane was

originally sold as a kit the Rotax 912 engine was an option.



I've checked with John McBean and he is as much in the dark as I am on this

one.....  I guess this one is extra unique.... I don't suppose Dan Denney is

still around??



Noel

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

Noel,



Do ou have a serial number.  We have 17 model IIIs and 13 Model IIs in the 

data base.  Maybe a serial number and the help from those folks could fix 

your airplane in that time frame.



Lowell

---

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: Model III-A??

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I have a model II the serial number is 345. There were several engine  options offered for the model II. The Rotax 582, Rotax 912 and the KFM 112.  There were also options available at the time which included two wing tanks and  aluminum header tank to be located behind the seat. If you look in the archives  you may find the documentation which serial numbers went with which model  numbers. Hope this will help some.

  

 Dee Young

 Model II N345DY

 KFM 112

  

 Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: Model III-A??

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Noel says; To all the Kitfox flyers...



My kitfox is registered as a  model III-A.  The serial # is 736.  I was going

through some of the  paper work the other day and noticed the original order

was for a model  II. 

  

 Noel, If you hit a dead end let me know and I may have the information you  need at the hanger. 

  

 Dee Young

 Model II

  

  

 Do Not Archive



   [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: Model III-A??

Lowell:



The serial # is  736



I just checked the  letter of conformity for the plane....  The first page says model 2 the  other pages say model 3...  Go figure.  The date was '92 I guess  that's why TC removed my AULA  status.



Noel



    [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: Model III-A??

Dee:

  

 What is the MTOW for your  plane?

  

 Do not archive

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Model III-A??

MY model  2 is ser 347  the kit was started ain 98 and finished  in 2000  I also wonder what mods may make it a 1050 GW I will wach this  one   mal michigan  

    do not archive   

  [quote][b]

Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: Model III-A??

Could it be that Denney Aircraft was in a “development” stage of the 3, and you got an interim model between the 2 and 3? Maybe they just started marketing the 3, but still had the model 2 paperwork and designation?  

   

I guess in which case you could call it one or the other.  

   

Does the vertical stab size give any clue?  

   

Bradley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys

 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:17 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Model III-A??  

  

   

Lowell:

 

 The serial # is [b]736[/b]

 

 I just checked the letter of conformity for the plane....  The first page says model 2 the other pages say model 3...  Go figure.  The date was '92 I guess that's why TC removed my AULA status.

 

 Noel

 

 

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       [quote][b]

_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: Model III-A??

wing strength   up dates  would increase the  GW.      not gas tanks or interior options larger rutter  would help w/ cross wind  capabilities 

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: Model III-A??

What I understand from the  original builder is the kit was ordered as one model but before it was shipped  it was upgraded to the next model.  I understand there were some minor  changes made to the fuselage frame.  As to whether or not those changes  included beefing up the spar pass throughs I don't know.   

  

 The main concern to me is  whether or not I can safely increase the MTOW to 1050 lb.  If not what  would I have to do to make the increase?  It may not be worth the  aggravation 

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: Model III-A??

I quite agree.  I only put in the  equipment that is in my plane to give others a bit of an idea as to what my  plane has installed.  I was hoping they might be able to tell me what to  look for in a plane that has the 1050 lb. MTOW.  If my plane confirms to  what is expected then I will proceed with getting the registration  changed.  TC says I can do that but I'll only do it if it's safe to do so..  Not that they would let me do it if it was not safe.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: Model III-A??

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  In the POH for the Model II the gross is listed at 950 lbs. and the MTOW is  listed at 1050 lbs. 

  

 Dee

  

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Model III-A??

Noel,



I understand that on the IV, it can be changed from the 1050 grwt to the 

1200 grwt by drilling the lower strut attach brackets and inserting a 4130 

rod threaded at both ends through the carry through tube with washers and 

nuts securing it in place.  That strengthens the carry through.  The rest of 

the mod is the thicker wall lift struts.  This from Frank Miller.  Don't 

know if the present factory would authorize these mods.



Lowell

---

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Model III-A??

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Model 2 serial numbers ranged  from #258 to #748. This might help some too.

  

 Dee

  

 Do not  archive

 [quote]   ---

GENTRYLL(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

The third item is the spar reinforcement  inserts.

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

Thanks Lowell:



I have had a few answers back from Dee Young.  His model II has a gross

weight of 950 and a MTOW of 1050.  I always thought the MTOW and gross were

the same...  I'll ask Dee



In the mean time I'll have a look at my lower strut pass through.



I'm beginning to think what I actually have is a model 3 beta 



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

Dee: I hate to look so stunned  but...

  

 I thought gross weight and MTOW were the  same thing.  I guess I've missed something here.  How does the POH  differentiate between the MTOW and Gross weight?  The extra hundred pounds  will allow me to carry a real passenger. (half tanks)

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

Ask Steve? : )



Lynn

do not archive

On Monday, November 13, 2006, at 04:23  PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] Dee: I hate to look so stunned but...

  

 I thought gross weight and MTOW were the same thing.  I guess I've 

 missed something here.  How does the POH differentiate between the 

 MTOW and Gross weight?  The extra hundred pounds will allow me to 

 carry a real passenger. (half tanks)

  

  



 Noel

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Model III-A??

All of this is very interesting to me as my model 2 is S/N 493 and I 

will have problems trying to carry most adult sized passengers for more 

than about an hour long ride if I stay within the 950 gross. If I could 

increase the gross to 1050 it would make a great deal of difference to 

me about keeping this model. It also seems possible that improvements 

could have been introduced on the assembly line before the official 

release of the model 3 specs. I have not searched for exact measurements 

for the changes between the model 2 and 3. I have only seen comments 

like "larger rudder" and "stronger struts and carry through" without 

specific numbers. Does anyone think we can determine at what S/N and 

above by measuring?

Rex

Colorado



Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote]



Thanks Lowell:



I have had a few answers back from Dee Young.  His model II has a gross

weight of 950 and a MTOW of 1050.  I always thought the MTOW and gross were

the same...  I'll ask Dee



In the mean time I'll have a look at my lower strut pass through.



I'm beginning to think what I actually have is a model 3 beta 



Noel



  



>--

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

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