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Some Observations after Two Years of Building

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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

Today marks the two year anniversary of the arrival of my tail kit  

and it seems a good time to post some observations I've made over the  

course of those 730 days:



I've put in 905 hours... an average of 1.74 per day, 5 days per  

week.  Not quite the 2 hours per day that I had planned.  As others  

have pointed out on this list from time to time, things happen over  

during a project like this.  Life changes, and if you're going to  

finish, you will likely have to change your expectations from time to  

time and keep forging ahead in any way you can.  In my case, it was  

severe Tennis Elbow in both arms (the result of a four hour riveting  

session with my pneumatic squeezer) that cost me the better part of  

three months of work and about $1,000 in physical therapy.



The DRDT-2 is a must, and with it you should dimple "missionary"  

style.  I spent a long time dragging skins over the male dimple  

die... hunting around for the hole (all puns here are intended)...  

before I realized how easy it was to dimple skins from the top down.



Time spent setting up is time saved working.



Measure three times.  Cut once.



Find a comfortable position to stand in before pulling the trigger on  

the rivet gun.  That will save your skins as well as your back.



Some riveting simply can't be done alone



If you feel as if you are about to make a mistake, you're probably  

right.  Read the plans again... and again... and again... until what  

you are doing becomes clear.  And, remember, it's the left side  

that's pictured in the plans.



If you're tired, don't work.



If it hurts, stop.



Vary your work.  Don't just countersink for hours on end... or rivet  

or deburr or even dimple.  Repetitive tasks will take their toll over  

time ( I have the elbows to prove it)



Finally, there are no "stupid" questions.  None of us learn or  

understand things in the same way and what might be obvious to one  

person is anything but that to another. For me, it took an  

embarrassing amount of time to really understand why we deburr.  I  

did it, dutifully, but it wasn't until I was well into the wing that  

I got the mental picture of a sharp edged rib flange cutting into a  

skin as the plane vibrated under power.  I think we need to make a  

better effort on this list to avoid jumping all over someone for  

asking a question (even a priming question) just because the answer  

is obvious to some of us.  I have a sense that there are many  

"lurkers" out there afraid to address the list for fear that they  

will appear less smart or less sophisticated or just flat out  

stupid.  If we want a safe fleet of RV-10's flying in the future,  

then we have to indulge even the most basic questions and we have to  

remember that new people coming on to the list have to go through the  

same discovery process as those who started it.  Hats off to Tim  

Olson for his contributions, but even more so for his tone.  I think  

it's an example we should all follow.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

Elbow braces securely fastened

Riveting the right flap

ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

Excellent post Jeff.  After 2.75 yrs and 2000 hrs of slow build, I can endorse everything you have said.  I too have suffered significant elbow pain through repetetive tasks and posted to the list on this some time ago.  Got nil response, so I thought it was just me getting old and soft.  Just worked through it.  I'm well into the finshing stages now, and find that the old elbows are much healthier now the edge and hole deburring (I think that's what caused me most strain) are finished.   

Lurkers should be aware that building is an enormous challenge and great fun -  I would definitley do it all again in an instant and will likley build another RV in the future.  But there are some hazards.  Crook elbows, the odd hole bored into unsuspecting fingers (and knuckles), pinching skin in the pneumatic squeezer, exposure to alodine, toluene, isocyanates, epoxies, fiberglass dust, flying debris from grinding, aluminium dust, sharp edges (esp firewall!!). . . all makes the build process that much more exciting!  I think it was Rick Sked who said to call it quits for the night when you first draw blood   

As pilots, I am sure we are all very safety conscious, and take every precaution during the build process.  Unfortunately, s^&t happens, and you can't plan for allergic reactions and debiltating conditions like RSI.  

Not intending to turn anyone off at all - but the last thing we need is to lose our medicals because of building misphaps.  

build safe, fly safe  

Ron  

187 finishing   

--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

I’m beginning to think we need a support group for Riveting Elbow!  I too suffered this affliction but I’m too stubborn (or is that stupid) to stop working.  I originally got it 15 years ago from playing Racquetball anyway.  Oh well.  My little 6 month break due to my move is letting it heal up finally.  I guess some good advice out of this is to wear a tennis elbow brace right from the beginning.  

   

Michael Sausen  

-10 #352 Fuselage  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 5:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Some Observations after Two Years of Building  

  

   

Excellent post Jeff.  After 2.75 yrs and 2000 hrs of slow build, I can endorse everything you have said.  I too have suffered significant elbow pain through repetetive tasks and posted to the list on this some time ago.  Got nil response, so I thought it was just me getting old and soft.  Just worked through it.  I'm well into the finshing stages now, and find that the old elbows are much healthier now the edge and hole deburring (I think that's what caused me most strain) are finished.   

Lurkers should be aware that building is an enormous challenge and great fun -  I would definitley do it all again in an instant and will likley build another RV in the future.  But there are some hazards.  Crook elbows, the odd hole bored into unsuspecting fingers (and knuckles), pinching skin in the pneumatic squeezer, exposure to alodine, toluene, isocyanates, epoxies, fiberglass dust, flying debris from grinding, aluminium dust, sharp edges (esp firewall!!). . . all makes the build process that much more exciting!  I think it was Rick Sked who said to call it quits for the night when you first draw blood   

As pilots, I am sure we are all very safety conscious, and take every precaution during the build process.  Unfortunately, s^&t happens, and you can't plan for allergic reactions and debiltating conditions like RSI.  

Not intending to turn anyone off at all - but the last thing we need is to lose our medicals because of building misphaps.  

build safe, fly safe 

 Ron 

 187 finishing   

-----Original Message----- 

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)]On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter 

 Sent: Friday, 17 November 2006 8:52 AM 

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building   

   

--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>   

Today marks the two year anniversary of the arrival of my tail kit  

 and it seems a good time to post some observations I've made over the  

 course of those 730 days:   

I've put in 905 hours... an average of 1.74 per day, 5 days per  

 week.  Not quite the 2 hours per day that I had planned.  As others  

 have pointed out on this list from time to time, things happen over  

 during a project like this.  Life changes, and if you're going to  

 finish, you will likely have to change your expectations from time to  

 time and keep forging ahead in any way you can.  In my case, it was  

 severe Tennis Elbow in both arms (the result of a four hour riveting  

 session with my pneumatic squeezer) that cost me the better part of  

 three months of work and about $1,000 in physical therapy.   

The DRDT-2 is a must, and with it you should dimple "missionary"  

 style.  I spent a long time dragging skins over the male dimple  

 die... hunting around for the hole (all puns here are intended)...  

 before I realized how easy it was to dimple skins from the top down.   

Time spent setting up is time saved working.   

Measure three times.  Cut once.   

Find a comfortable position to stand in before pulling the trigger on  

 the rivet gun.  That will save your skins as well as your back.   

Some riveting simply can't be done alone   

If you feel as if you are about to make a mistake, you're probably  

 right.  Read the plans again... and again... and again... until what  

 you are doing becomes clear.  And, remember, it's the left side  

 that's pictured in the plans.   

If you're tired, don't work.   

If it hurts, stop.   

Vary your work.  Don't just countersink for hours on end... or rivet  

 or deburr or even dimple.  Repetitive tasks will take their toll over  

 time ( I have the elbows to prove it)   

Finally, there are no "stupid" questions.  None of us learn or  

 understand things in the same way and what might be obvious to one  

 person is anything but that to another. For me, it took an  

 embarrassing amount of time to really understand why we deburr.  I  

 did it, dutifully, but it wasn't until I was well into the wing that  

 I got the mental picture of a sharp edged rib flange cutting into a  

 skin as the plane vibrated under power.  I think we need to make a  

 better effort on this list to avoid jumping all over someone for  

 asking a question (even a priming question) just because the answer  

 is obvious to some of us.  I have a sense that there are many  

 "lurkers" out there afraid to address the list for fear that they  

 will appear less smart or less sophisticated or just flat out  

 stupid.  If we want a safe fleet of RV-10's flying in the future,  

 then we have to indulge even the most basic questions and we have to  

 remember that new people coming on to the list have to go through the  

 same discovery process as those who started it.  Hats off to Tim  

 Olson for his contributions, but even more so for his tone.  I think  

 it's an example we should all follow.   

Jeff Carpenter 

 40304 

 Elbow braces securely fastened 

 Riveting the right flap   [quote]



 [b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

What a bunch of whiners!!!!! :-*          I Had wrist / Carpel tunnel 

surgery and had my forearm in a cast for 10 weeks, The Doc said "don't  

lift anything more than 5 lbs for 3 months"  I was riveting with the 

cast on 1 week after surgery, probably not too smart, but I told you all 

I am compulsive!!!!! :-!



Do Not archive



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



 	  Quote: 	
		  *

*

acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

That's nothin....

I had back surgery and 2 weeks later had my wife sling me over the fuse in 

my old hang gliding harness so I could keep on going .....whinge whinge.. 



John 40315 (halfway..because I still don't have the windshield in)

do not archive

---

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

Not to down play all the name calling He-men out there but  I had 6 surgeries on my right hand since May of 2003, the last in October 2005 as a result of a crushed finger that ultimately was replaced by a nifty carbon fiber and titanium bone replacement unit (#2 to get one in the country)  that will never really replace the original but beats the heck out of amputation or fusion. 



So nanner nanner Deems, and your Wussy comment  



Getting back to the building process was a major motivator and in between some 350 odd physical therapy appointments and work I managed to get to the point Deems is at minus a few months....



Never give in, never surrender...



Rick S.

40185



FWIW, I think Anh went through a bunch more with the torn achillies tendon...



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

Sounds like a session of I've got one better than you.  Well golly, I got a

bunch of work to go do in my garage.   LOL.



Bob K

90/90



--

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

I'm humbled.................  (I Think    )



Deems



Rick wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Not to down play all the name calling He-men out there but  I had 6 surgeries on my right hand since May of 2003, the last in October 2005 as a result of a crushed finger that ultimately was replaced by a nifty carbon fiber and titanium bone replacement unit (#2 to get one in the country)  that will never really replace the original but beats the heck out of amputation or fusion. 



So nanner nanner Deems, and your Wussy comment  



Getting back to the building process was a major motivator and in between some 350 odd physical therapy appointments and work I managed to get to the point Deems is at minus a few months....



Never give in, never surrender...



Rick S.

40185



FWIW, I think Anh went through a bunch more with the torn achillies tendon...



do not archive

mgeans(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

Jeff Carpenter wrote:



"I have a sense that there are many "lurkers" out there

afraid to address the list for fear that they will appear

less smart or less sophisticated or just flat out stupid."



Well.....Not this one!!! Type! - Type! - Type! - Lurk! -

Lurk! - Lurk!  Hey! Look!  I have no empenage in my garage!

 I have no money in the bank yet!  I have time to Type!

Type! Type!  "They're comeing to take me away! HOO HOO

:-O HA HA  They're taking me away to the RV farm!!!"



(the preceeding message was intended for notions of humor

and silliness and in no way should be mistaken as sarcasim.

 Mr. Carpenter's well written piece on correct ergonomic

control of one's extremities should serve us all a good

notion to utilize good planning during our build and use

correct working heights for one's personal altitude that

one climbs and maintains throughout each day.  It would

also be good to add the common sense of using our PPE

(personal protective equipment) when in our shop.  No

elbows were harmed in the makeing of this e-mail.)



John,



Thank you for your update on your 2 year progress.  It is a

good milestone to be able to look at your progress.  Its

more than I can say for my progress.  Let those who have

not be happy for those who do!  Congradulations John!



Matt Geans,

Builder Wanna-be



On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:21:50 -0800

 Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

 

 Today marks the two year anniversary of the arrival of my

 tail kit  and it seems a good time to post some

 observations I've made over the  course of those 730

 days:

 

 I've put in 905 hours... an average of 1.74 per day, 5

 days per  week.  Not quite the 2 hours per day that I had

 planned.  As others  have pointed out on this list from

 time to time, things happen over  during a project like

 this.  Life changes, and if you're going to  finish, you

 will likely have to change your expectations from time to

  time and keep forging ahead in any way you can.  In my

 case, it was  severe Tennis Elbow in both arms (the

 result of a four hour riveting  session with my pneumatic

 squeezer) that cost me the better part of  three months

 of work and about $1,000 in physical therapy.

 

 The DRDT-2 is a must, and with it you should dimple

 "missionary"  style.  I spent a long time dragging skins

 over the male dimple  die... hunting around for the hole

 (all puns here are intended)...  before I realized how

 easy it was to dimple skins from the top down.

 

 Time spent setting up is time saved working.

 

 Measure three times.  Cut once.

 

 Find a comfortable position to stand in before pulling

 the trigger on  the rivet gun.  That will save your skins

 as well as your back.

 

 Some riveting simply can't be done alone

 

 If you feel as if you are about to make a mistake, you're

 probably  right.  Read the plans again... and again...

 and again... until what  you are doing becomes clear.

  And, remember, it's the left side  that's pictured in

 the plans.

 

 If you're tired, don't work.

 

 If it hurts, stop.

 

 Vary your work.  Don't just countersink for hours on

 end... or rivet  or deburr or even dimple.  Repetitive

 tasks will take their toll over  time ( I have the elbows

 to prove it)

 

 Finally, there are no "stupid" questions.  None of us

 learn or  understand things in the same way and what

 might be obvious to one  person is anything but that to

 another. For me, it took an  embarrassing amount of time

 to really understand why we deburr.  I  did it,

 dutifully, but it wasn't until I was well into the wing

 that  I got the mental picture of a sharp edged rib

 flange cutting into a  skin as the plane vibrated under

 power.  I think we need to make a  better effort on this

 list to avoid jumping all over someone for  asking a

 question (even a priming question) just because the

 answer  is obvious to some of us.  I have a sense that

 there are many  "lurkers" out there afraid to address the

 list for fear that they  will appear less smart or less

 sophisticated or just flat out  stupid.  If we want a

 safe fleet of RV-10's flying in the future,  then we have

 to indulge even the most basic questions and we have to

  remember that new people coming on to the list have to

 go through the  same discovery process as those who

 started it.  Hats off to Tim  Olson for his

 contributions, but even more so for his tone.  I think

  it's an example we should all follow.

 

 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 Elbow braces securely fastened

 Riveting the right flap

 

 

 

 

 

 



 Admin.



 page,

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

HEY! I walked 5 miles, uphill both ways, to school when I was little and it was in 5 feet of snow.  But I was only 4 feet tall with no shoes on! 



Ah yes, this list is always good for a laugh or two.  HA!  



Michael



Do not archive

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--

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Some Observations after Two Years of Building

 	  Rick S. wrote: 	
		  Never give in, never surrender...



	




Galaxy Quest!!!



I don't believe the elbow problems come from riveting. I have developed it in both elbows. I figured out that it was the cleco pliers. I sprang for a pneumatic cleco gun and it has already helped a lot.

Here's a test:  put a cleco in the pliers, squeeze it, and hold. You'll feel it.

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

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