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Facet pump thread sealer

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Lanny Fetterman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Catawissa Pa.

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

Hi All, My Facet pump came today, are there any suggestions as to what I 

should use to seal the threads? Also, if I mount it lower than the fuel 

tanks. In the event it fails ( from what I have read this would probably 

need to be from a blown fuse or bad connection), can the mechanical pump 

pull fuel through about five feet of fuel line, with a three foot lift to 

the carbs? Just trying to cover all the bases before installation!  Thanks 

in advance Lanny Fetterman N598LF  FSII   Do not archive

_________________
Lanny Fetterman Firestar II N598LF

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

Hi,

   I mounted my facet on the bottom of the "jump seat" then ran the fuel 

lines forward to a panel at the side of the front seat, then back up to the 

pulse pump. I first attempted to use it as a boost pump as in a GA plane. It 

worked fine until I did a fly by at a friends house then attempted to pull 

out with full throttle. It coughed on pull out and I never attempted to fly 

without it again. So I guess my answer would be that it will "most likely" 

do just fine as long as you don't use full throttle.

As Beauford says - its worth what you paid for it!

Larry, Oregon



---

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

Parker Seal Lube...

  

 do not archive



 

 On 11/27/06, Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)uplink.net (donaho(at)uplink.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)uplink.net  (donaho(at)uplink.net)>



       Hi All, My Facet pump came today, are there any suggestions as to what I

should use to seal the threads?  Lanny Fetterman N598LF  FSII   Do not archive



[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

Dave Bigelow

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Facet pump thread sealer

I used teflon tape to seal the threads on my facet, and have had no problems.



You really should plumb the two pumps in parallel.  Both the facet and the mechanical pump have built in check valves, so the failure of either pump will not affect the operation of the other.  If you put the pumps in series, a failure of either pump can affect the fuel flow to the engine.  You do not need a squeeze bulb with a parallel setup - in fact there have been a number of fuel starvation incidents because of squeeze bulb failures



This is a controversial subject on this forum, and there are a number of Kolbers who are running the pumps in series.  Consider that virtually all GA and T Category aircraft with dual tank pumps use the parallel system.  That's good enough for me.  



The facet pump alone provides more pressure than the mechanical pump alone.  Check the pumps before flight by turning on the electric pump long enough to fill the carb bowls.  If you are using transparent fuel line, you will see the fuel lines fill up.   Turn off the electric pump and start, taxi, and partial power run up with the mechanical pump.  If it is not working, the carb bowls will run dry and the engine will quit.  Turn on the electric pump before takeoff and leave it on for the entire flight.

_________________
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E

Steven Green

Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

Larry,



The facts:

Rotax recommends putting an auxilary pump in paralell with the mechanical

pump.



Many put the aux pump in series and have no problems.



My thoughts:

1) I do not like to run the aux pump during flight because I don't want a

pump pumping fuel out in the event of an accident.



2) If the aux pump is in series and not running, the mechanical pump must

reduce the pressure at its inlet enough to lift the fuel the 3 feet or so

plus what ever it takes to open the check valves on the electric pump.(I

plan to measure this when I do my annual this winter) Keep in mind that the

distance the fuel is lifted is multiplied by the positive "G" load on the

plane at that time.  So everything may go well until you do a hard pull up

(2 or 3 Gs) on a hot day then the gasoline could turn to vapor at the inlet

to your mechanical pump.  Higher altitudes will reduce the pressure on the

fuel also so a problem may not show up until you are in the air on a warm

day.



3) John Hauck has more hours piloting his plane than Noah had in the Ark and

his aux pump is in series but keep in mind that his fuel tank is mounted

about 2 feet higher than most of ours.



4) It all boils down to pressure and temperature at the inlet of the

mechanical pump.



5) I used #3 permatex to seal the threads.



Steven Green

MkIII 912

Aux pump in paralell



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi All, My Facet pump came today, are there any suggestions as to what I

 should use to seal the threads? Also, if I mount it lower than the fuel

 tanks. In the event it fails ( from what I have read this would probably

 need to be from a blown fuse or bad connection), can the mechanical pump

 pull fuel through about five feet of fuel line, with a three foot lift to

 the carbs? Just trying to cover all the bases before installation!  Thanks

 in advance Lanny Fetterman N598LF  FSII   Do not archive

_________________
Steven Green

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

Many have used the tape without any problems.



However, some homebuilts have had blocked fuel systems caused by slivers 

of teflon tape. Even if there's no problem on initial installation, 

residue in the female threads can get pushed into the lines if the 

connection is opened & re-made. It doesn't take much to block a fuel 

injector or carb jet.



Charlie



Dave Bigelow wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I used teflon tape to seal the threads on my facet, and have had no problems.



You really should plumb the two pumps in parallel.  Both the facet and the mechanical pump have built in check valves, so the failure of either pump will not affect the operation of the other.  If you put the pumps in series, a failure of either pump can affect the fuel flow to the engine.  You do not need a squeeze bulb with a parallel setup - in fact there have been a number of fuel starvation incidents because of squeeze bulb failures



This is a controversial subject on this forum, and there are a number of Kolbers who are running the pumps in series.  Consider that virtually all GA and T Category aircraft with dual tank pumps use the parallel system.  That's good enough for me.  



The facet pump alone provides more pressure than the mechanical pump alone.  Check the pumps before flight by turning on the electric pump long enough to fill the carb bowls.  If you are using transparent fuel line, you will see the fuel lines fill up.   Turn off the electric pump and start, taxi, and partial power run up with the mechanical pump.  If it is not working, the carb bowls will run dry and the engine will quit.  Turn on the electric pump before takeoff and leave it on for the entire flight.



--------

Dave Bigelow

Kamuela, Hawaii

FS2, HKS 700E

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

I second using gas resistant Permatex thread sealant.  Teflon tape is 

a no-no, small fragments can get to the carb clog things up resulting 

in loss of the engine.

jerb

At 07:06 PM 11/27/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



         Hi All, My Facet pump came today, are there any suggestions 

 as to what I should use to seal the threads? Also, if I mount it 

 lower than the fuel tanks. In the event it fails ( from what I have 

 read this would probably need to be from a blown fuse or bad 

 connection), can the mechanical pump pull fuel through about five 

 feet of fuel line, with a three foot lift to the carbs? Just trying 

 to cover all the bases before installation!  Thanks in advance 

 Lanny Fetterman N598LF  FSII   Do not archive

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Facet pump thread sealer

Parallel vs. Series Fuel Pump Installation



I prefer the aux. fuel pump to plumbed in parallel. However, our 

Allegro has the pump plumbed in series and we've had no problems in 450 

hours use. The pump used in this installation does not have its own 

check valve so that is not an issue. Instead it has a separate check 

valve plumbed in parallel to the aux. pump. The gascolater is upstream 

and has two outlets, one going to the aux. pump and one going to the 

parallel check valve. Attached is a .jpeg from the manual.



do not archive

fuelpumparrangement.jpg

Description:

Allegro aux fuel pump installation

Filesize:

54.7 KB

Viewed:

350 Time(s)

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

I 3rd that.  Charlie's exactly right - on re-assembly residue in the female 

threads get pushed into the system.  I work on commercial appliances, and 

can say that many manufacturers of gas appliances will void warranties if 

they find teflon tape on connections.                    Lar.



Larry Bourne

Santa Fe, NM

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Facet pump thread sealer

<< Hi All, My Facet pump came today, are there any suggestions as to

what I should use to seal the threads? Lanny Fetterman >>



Lanny -



Use the Permatex product called "High Temperature Thread Sealant."

Available in most auto parts stores.

It's purpose is to seal any threaded fuel or oil lines, instead of

Teflon tape.



Reason to avoid the Teflon tape:  someone on this List shared a story

about an engine stoppage that was due to a tiny fleck of Teflon tape

that came loose from a threaded fuel line fitting and got stuck in a

carb jet.



Dennis Kirby

Mark-III, 912ul

Dave Bigelow

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Facet pump thread sealer

Dennis Kirby Wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Use the Permatex product called "High Temperature Thread Sealant." 

Available in most auto parts stores. 

It's purpose is to seal any threaded fuel or oil lines, instead of 

Teflon tape. 



Reason to avoid the Teflon tape: someone on this List shared a story 

about an engine stoppage that was due to a tiny fleck of Teflon tape 

that came loose from a threaded fuel line fitting and got stuck in a 

carb jet. 



Dennis Kirby 

Mark-III, 912ul 	




Just took off my fuel pump fittings that were sealed with teflon tape, and carefully cleaned off all the tape.  I'm now using the Permatex product.



I sometimes wonder just how many butts have been saved by the generous sharing of knowlege on this list.  My thanks to everyone - I've learned a lot here!

_________________
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E

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