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Alternator Recommendations

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Wingrider

Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in.



I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights. 



I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what Iâ€™ve read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators?



There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time?



Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads.

CH601HDS Electrical Loads Analysis1.xls

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CH601HDS Electrical Loads Analysis1.xls

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_________________
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Personally I don't have an issue with one wire alternators, I ran one in my Zodiac for over 400 hours and it worked flawlessly. This is assuming you don't have hugely expensive avionics stack either...In my IFR RV7 I still run a one wire but have an Overvolt circuit and contactor...But I still don't expect any real issues.



Bob will point out that many doggy old spam cans are running alternators that came out of the Ark!



Anyway, the homebuilders choice for many years has been the 1987 Suzuki Samuri Alternator..Its a real gem, lightwieght, powerful (55amps in theory) and extremely reliable...The only time mine acted up was when the back of the alt was continually sprayed with oil that worked itsway to the brushes, then it became intermittent.



Replaced the brushes and it was fine. 



As to your loads, you really don't need to assume your landing lights are part of your running loads as these should only be used intermittently...Having said that, if your running electric fuel pumps only then there is a risk of leaving your LL on and pulling down the battery voltage...I would use a small LED as a warning that you have your lights on.



The Suzuki alternator will fit your requirements very nicely however.



Regards



Frank 



--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

At 06:06 AM 11/30/2006 -0800, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the 

post for a while this is my first time writing in.



I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's 

Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before 

installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe 

the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; 

I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off 

base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for 

landing lights.



I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive 

alternator. From what Iâ€™ve read it sounds like I should stick with the 

three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are 

there recommendations for specific alternators?



There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is 

a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product 

to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is 

there any news on this product at this time?


	


     I've acquired an alternator drive stand and hope

     to spend some time getting it wired up over the

     xmas holidays. In any case, the internally regulated

     automotive alternator is the wave of the future and

     certainly the better value. Drive ahead with any

     alternator choice that meets your power requirements

     knowing that any enhancements to the alternator's

     operability are easily added on at a later time.



     Bob . . .

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Hi Rich



FWIW I run an electonic ignition, EFI, and two 38 watt halogen projector 

lights wig wagging, but not much in the way of avionics and I typically 

see just over 20 amps daytime and about 26 amps when I add the nav 

lights. Even at night with the two 38 watt lights on continuously plus 

two 50 watt landing lights for approach, my wee 40 amp nippondenso (with 

a homemade large pulley to slow it) still seems to maintain voltage. 

I've never seen the low voltage warning on the ground either although I 

usually kill the two 50 watt landing lights while taxiing. While in 

theory it is fine if the landing lights draw down the battery a tiny bit 

on approach, it would be a distraction to get a low voltage warning on 

final. You would either learn to ignore the warning (not good) or 

disable it when the lights are on which is also not good. My 88 watts 

per wing of halogen landing and taxi lights is perhaps more than needed 

but it is appreciated on black nights on runways with no approach lights.



Now I also run a 20 amp John Deere PM alternator on a separate system 

which drives backup EFI, ignition, and strobe lights. It really does put 

out 20 amps in flight but its output falls off rapidly such that it will 

not maintain voltage with all those things running during normal ground 

handling. So while a single John Deere is adequate for daytime operation 

without exterior lights, you are correct that it would not be very 

satisfactory for ground running at night for me. With a carb and no EFI 

electric fuel pumps the 20 amps would be fine I think but exterior 

lighting would have to be watched on the ground at night and I'd also be 

looking for LED nav lights. I don't know what your Fujitsu thing is but 

my conventional nav lights draw a lot more than the 1 amp on your 

spreadsheet. My ignition also draws a couple of amps. One amp seems a 

bit low for ignition. Electronic ignition may draw considerably more at 

high rpm than at idle. The corvair would likely spin the John Deere 

faster than I am though so that might help.



BTW I don't see any real difference between a "one wire" alternator and 

a automotive internally regulated alternator. The warning light function 

usually doesn't make a good low voltage warning. The ability to remote 

sense the voltage that some regulators have doesn't make much difference 

to us. The ability to delay turnng on the alternator until after engine 

start also has little value and is not normally used. We know that some 

of the oem alternators can be turned off but many of us don't believe 

one can count on that function either once a regulator has failed - so 

again not much value to that.



Ken



Wingrider wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in.



I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights. 



I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what Iâ¬"ve read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators?



There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time?



Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads.



 



--------

Rich Whittington

Tullahoma, TN

Zenith 601HDS Under Construction

Wingrider

Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Recommendations

Thanks for the information, I'll research the Suzuki alternator. The Fujitsu is a Tablet PC I plan to attach to the panel for gps navigation using PocketFMS and Voyager.



My nav lights are LED's that's why the amp draw is so low. Now I just have to figure out how to mount an alternator to the rear of the Corvair.

_________________
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP

mwcreek(at)frontiernet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Rich,



I just went through this for my Bearhawk.  I spent a lot of time trying to

find a Samurai alternator; they are no longer available new. Niagra Airparts

no longer carries the ND, either. I did find and ND 45 amp internally

regulated alternator for $175 at:



http://www.litechracesystems.com/Products.html



It arrived this week and is a new ND part no. 18504-6220.



Good luck,

Mike C.



--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

At 05:31 PM 11/30/2006 -0800, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks for the information, I'll research the Suzuki alternator. The 

Fujitsu is a Tablet PC I plan to attach to the panel for gps navigation 

using PocketFMS and Voyager.


	


    When alternator shopping based on the recommendations

    of others, it's useful to know that there's no such

    thing as a "Honda" or "GEO_Metro" alternator. 95% of

    the world's supply of alternators is manufactured

    by a handful of companies of which folks like Bosch

    and Nipon Denso are major players.



    It's unfortunate that so many different versions of

    electrically identical alternators are offered in so

    many mechanical variations. But this is like choosing and/or

    attempting to mandate the language of measurement. It's

    an attractive idea but fruitless to suggest that all

    auto manufacturers get together and pick a suite of say 25 parts

    around which everyone will design their electrical

    systems. Certainly the parts jobbers and dealers

    would be delighted . . . as perhaps customers. They'd

    certainly cost less.



    Bottom line is that on the shelves of any well

    stock parts supplier, there are dozens of alternators

    that will perform just fine in your airplane. The

    value in selecting a "Honda" alternator may come from

    the fact that somebody has published drawings for

    the mechanical interface between THAT particular

    alternator and YOUR engine.



    Just keep in mind that electrical and quality issues

    are tiny considerations compared to size, weight

    and ease of integration into your airframe . . . and

    that the number of choices open to you run far beyond

    anyone's particular preferences or recommendations.



    Bob . . .

      ---------------------------------------------------------

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

      ---------------------------------------------------------

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Yes Bob I agree, but there are alternators that have less than a stella

reputation, the Van 35A "Honda" alternator being a case in point.



The "Suzuki Samurai" is a ND unit and for the life of me I can't find

the ND part number. It was indeed used on many cars the biggest

difference being whether it was fitted with a V belt pully or a

serpentine. When I found my 80A "Toyota Camry" alt for my IFR RV it cam

with a serp pulley, An alternator rebuilder kindly found me a v pulley

that fitted. Once you get past the pulley the rest is just fabricating

suitable brackets to suit.



I would post a note to the "Stratus group" as someone on there will have

the part number handy. I would be very surprised if this alt was no

longer available. 



Cheers



Frank



 



--

robh(at)hyperion-ef.us
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

A quick check with Google found this

http://replacement.autopartswarehouse.com/parts/autopartswarehouse/wizard.js

p?year=1987&make=SZ&model=SAM--001&part=Alternator&dp=true

Best regards,



Rob Housman

A070

Airframe complete

Irvine, CA



--

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

That's the one!...I had to shorten the link to make it  work by removing

the "wizrd.js" part then I could step thru to 1987 Suz samurai.



$130 for a new alt...Can't beat that with a stick!



Frank



--

Wingrider

Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Recommendations

AutoZone lists the 1987 Suzuki Samurai for $96 with a limited lifetime warranty and show it to weight 7.7 lbs.



http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EAlternator%7C%7E%2455.00%7C%7EDURALAST_IMPORT%7C%7E55+Amp++++++++++++++%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E871772%7C%7E104%7C%7E14824%7C%7EPremium+quality+reman%2C+some+new+components%7C%7E%2495.99%7C%7ESuzuki+Truck%7C%7ESamurai%7C%7E1987%7C%7ELLT%7C%7E7.7%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EW



Now if I could find someone in southern Tennessee or northern Alabama with a Corvair in a Zenith 601 I'd like to have a look at how much room is available to mount this alternator.

_________________
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP

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