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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: Switch source

For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an  (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole toggle switch which is designated by   Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection by 2 -70 , and the B&C  website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # S-700-2-70  ).

 Anybody knows a source for that particular  switch?

  

 Carlos

    [quote][b]

Neal.George(at)hurlburt.a
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: Switch source

Carlos - 

  

 I believe I received a similar switch as part of my  fuselage kit.

  

 neal

 RV-7 N8ZG

 

 

 

 For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an  (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole toggle switch which is designated by   Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection by 2 -70 , and the B&C  website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # S-700-2-70  ).

 Anybody knows a source for that particular  switch?

  

 Carlos

[quote] [b]

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Switch source

At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Carlos -



I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit.



neal

RV-7 N8ZG

For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole 

toggle switch which is designated by  Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection 

by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # 

S-700-2-70 ).

Anybody knows a source for that particular switch?


	




   Newark has one at:



http://tinyurl.com/soyjx



   The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70.



   Bob . . .

      ---------------------------------------------------------

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

      ---------------------------------------------------------

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Switch source

---

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Switch source

Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts - maybe

like (also at Newark):



http://tinyurl.com/uvv93



If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on) switches at

Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding things.

Matt-



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>



 At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote:



>Carlos -

>

>I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit.

>

>neal

>RV-7 N8ZG

>For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole

>toggle switch which is designated by  Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection

>by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part #

>S-700-2-70 ).

>Anybody knows a source for that particular switch?

    Newark has one at:



 http://tinyurl.com/soyjx



    The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70.



    Bob . . .

       ---------------------------------------------------------

       < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

       < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

       < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

       < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

       < with experiment.                                      >

       <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

       ---------------------------------------------------------

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Switch source

The datasheet for the Honeywell 2NT1-70 shows that it does have  

momentary contacts, as Carlos needs.



Kevin Horton

do not archive



On 30 Nov 2006, at 19:11, Matt Prather wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <mprather(at)spro.net>



 Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts -  

 maybe

 like (also at Newark):



 http://tinyurl.com/uvv93



 If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on)  

 switches at

 Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding  

 things.

 Matt-



> 

> <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

>

> At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote:

>

>> Carlos -

>>

>> I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit.

>>

>> neal

>> RV-7 N8ZG

>>

>>

>> For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON)  

>> Double Pole

>> toggle switch which is designated by  Bob Nuckols AeroElectric  

>> Connection

>> by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be  

>> part #

>> S-700-2-70 ).

>> Anybody knows a source for that particular switch?

>    Newark has one at:

>

> http://tinyurl.com/soyjx

>

>    The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70.

>

>    Bob . . .

>

>

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: Switch source

Sorry Carlos,



I misidentified the original poster of this switch request (what was I

just saying about proof reading posts?   )..



You might try Googling the Honeywell part number to find a vendor with a

more favorable shipping policy than Newark has..  I searched for



"2TL1-70 Honeywell"  (the momentary contact switch)



. and found a bunch of places that sell it (some in France and Italy if

that helps).

Regards,



Matt-

[quote] 

 <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>

 ---

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: Switch source

Ahah..  I see that now.  Thanks.

Matt-



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <khorton01(at)rogers.com>



 The datasheet for the Honeywell 2NT1-70 shows that it does have

 momentary contacts, as Carlos needs.



 Kevin Horton

 do not archive



 On 30 Nov 2006, at 19:11, Matt Prather wrote:



> 

> <mprather(at)spro.net>

>

> Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts -

> maybe

> like (also at Newark):

>

> http://tinyurl.com/uvv93

>

> If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on)

> switches at

> Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding

> things.

> Matt-

>

>> 

>> <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

>>

>> At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote:

>>

>>> Carlos -

>>>

>>> I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit.

>>>

>>> neal

>>> RV-7 N8ZG

>>>

>>>

>>> For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON)

>>> Double Pole

>>> toggle switch which is designated by  Bob Nuckols AeroElectric

>>> Connection

>>> by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be

>>> part #

>>> S-700-2-70 ).

>>> Anybody knows a source for that particular switch?

>>

>>

>>    Newark has one at:

>>

>> http://tinyurl.com/soyjx

>>

>>    The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70.

>>

>>    Bob . . .

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: Switch source

Why does this need to be an (on) on (on) switch instead of the plain old

common (on)off(on) flap switch?  I guess I'm not aware of a flap system in

an RV that requires such a configuration and why a standard old flap switch

that we all have used on our RV's (supplied by Van's, us, etc..) for years

wouldn't work!?  Please enlighten me....I'm just curious!



Cheers,

Stein.



[quote]--

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: Switch source

Answers in order of post appearance  :



Matt

No problem with your misidentification. I will google it and try to find a 

more favourable vendor.



Kevin

Thanks very much for your offer. If I cannot find a better source, I'll come 

back and ask for your help from Canada.



Stein

No wonder you're curious. The reason I need this kind of switch is because 

I'm installing the Flaps Positioning System that I bought from Aircraft 

Extras, which calls for 3 switches : 1 selector switch between Automatic and 

Manual operation ( SPDT On-On switch ), 1 Automatic Flaps switch ("normal" 

SPDT (On)-Off-(On) ), which operates the flaps to stop where you programmed 

it and automatically positions the elevator trim, and finally a Manual Flaps 

switch, which is a back-up or emergency switch, to operate the flaps when 

and if the system fails. This last switch connects the flap motor directly 

to +12V and must be acomplished by 2 SPDT On-None-(On) switches, or (I 

figured it out, I hope I'm right) by 1 DPDT (On)-On-(On), wich is what I'm 

looking for



Richard

I surely got the flaps switch from Van's (although I couldn't find it  - 

well, I got it some 4 years ago), but as you can see from the above 

explanation, it doesn't suit my need, unless I use a double relay board.

Also, thanks for your offer to get the switch for me. I'll get back if I 

can't find it.

Aren't this internet groups so GREAT to get help and knowledge!!?



Carlos

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: Switch source

At 07:56 PM 11/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



The datasheet for the Honeywell 2NT1-70 shows that it does have

momentary contacts, as Carlos needs.



Kevin Horton

do not archive


	


   Yes, the -70 is momentary (spring loaded) out

   of both extremes. It's also progressive transfer

   contacts.



   This functionality is attractive for the control

   of PM motors where it's useful to put a dead short

   across the motor when power is removed. This short

   offers "dynamic braking" that reduces coasting after

   power removal. See:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps_2.pdf



   Not than in position shown, middle OFF, the motor

   is shorted.



   Given Carlo's position outside the US, it might

   be easier to implement one of the alternative

   flap control architectures. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps_3.pdf



   Here, a couple of automotive SPDT relays (inexpensive

   and available worldwide) are used to handle motor

   current. Note here too that with relays in positions

   shown (OFF) there is a dead short across the motor.



   The relays are controlled by a single pole (ON)-OFF-(ON)

   switch that is also inexpensive and more readily available

   than the elegant but rarified 2-70.



    Bob. . .

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Switch source

At 01:38 PM 12/1/2006 +0000, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>



Answers in order of post appearance  :



Matt

No problem with your misidentification. I will google it and try to find a 

more favourable vendor.



Kevin

Thanks very much for your offer. If I cannot find a better source, I'll 

come back and ask for your help from Canada.



Stein

No wonder you're curious. The reason I need this kind of switch is because 

I'm installing the Flaps Positioning System that I bought from Aircraft 

Extras, which calls for 3 switches : 1 selector switch between Automatic 

and Manual operation ( SPDT On-On switch ), 1 Automatic Flaps switch 

("normal" SPDT (On)-Off-(On) ), which operates the flaps to stop where you 

programmed it and automatically positions the elevator trim, and finally a 

Manual Flaps switch, which is a back-up or emergency switch, to operate 

the flaps when and if the system fails. This last switch connects the flap 

motor directly to +12V and must be acomplished by 2 SPDT On-None-(On) 

switches, or (I figured it out, I hope I'm right) by 1 DPDT (On)-On-(On), 

wich is what I'm looking for


	


   Hmmmm . . . how likely is it that an inability to move

   flaps in this airplane presents a hazard to outcome of

   the flight?



   I am exceedingly suspicious of systems offered to the

   OBAM community that add any kind of automation to the

   movement of aerodynamic surfaces with motors. In the

   heavy iron business we have rigorous protocols for

   the design and testing of any motor driven flight surface.



   The concerns are not for inability to move the surface

   but for unintended and unanticipated motion during a

   high risk phase of flight.



   Too many designs offered to the OBAM aircraft community

   worry about inability to move surfaces (as it seems with

   your description).  I've not flown many kinds of airplanes

   but after the Cessna 150's got their flap extension angles

   reduced from 40 to 30 degrees, there are no airplanes in

   my experience that are likely to get into trouble by failure

   of flaps to move from any current position. This includes

   airplanes like our Premier I.



   If I used an airplane in situations were high reliability,

   positive control of flaps was desirable, the most attractive

   systems are operated by a handle on the floor. As soon as

   you start adding features for motor drive, automatic extension,

   backups to backups, etc. I'm wondering if the "concerns"

   for useful operation of flaps isn't generated more my

   marketing hype than for convenient, reliable, low risk

   use of flaps.



   A part that is not installed on your airplane is not

   at risk of failure and offers the lowest cost-of-ownership.



   Bob . . .

pgroell(at)yahoo.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: Switch source

 	  Quote: 	
		  >

> Stein

> No wonder you're curious. The reason I need this kind of switch is 

> because I'm installing the Flaps Positioning System that I bought 

> from Aircraft Extras, which calls for 3 switches : 1 selector switch 

> between Automatic and Manual operation ( SPDT On-On switch ), 1 

> Automatic Flaps switch ("normal" SPDT (On)-Off-(On) ), which operates 

> the flaps to stop where you programmed it and automatically positions 

> the elevator trim, and finally a Manual Flaps switch, which is a 

> back-up or emergency switch, to operate the flaps when and if the 

> system fails. This last switch connects the flap motor directly to 

> +12V and must be acomplished by 2 SPDT On-None-(On) switches, or (I 

> figured it out, I hope I'm right) by 1 DPDT (On)-On-(On), wich is 

> what I'm looking for.


	


Carlos,



I will be using the same system and have pretty much decided to delete 

all the optional switches.

I think if the Flaps Positioning System fails, well I'll consider the 

flaps have failed.

I consider that if you have electric flaps on an aircraft you have to be 

trained to use your machine without flaps.

I think adding all backup hardware is looking for more trouble.

My 0.02 cents,



Pascal GROELL

RV-7A #72588

www.notreavion.net

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: Switch source

---

pgroell(at)yahoo.fr
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Switch source

Carlos Trigo a écrit :

[quote] 

 <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>

 ---

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: Switch source

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hope I we can meet one day on this side of the Atlantic.



 Pascal


	


And where exactly are you building ?

Next January I will go to Barcelona and do some skiing in the Pyrinées, so 

if you are in south of France ....



Carlos

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Switch source

On 2 Dec 2006, at 08:23, Carlos Trigo wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>



          - You are in short final to any kind of airfield, with  

 your flaps deployed at maximum, and suddenly some obstacle occupies  

 your runway. If your FPS fails, how are you going to go-around?



 Although I'm aware these are low probability situations, they are  

 nevertheless some reasons why I want to have back-up/emergency  

 manual control of my flaps


	


As Pascal indicated, there are many possible reasons why flap systems  

may fail.  If it is not possible to safely do a go-around with the  

flaps fully extended, this suggests that the maximum flap angle is  

too great.



Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

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