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Wingrider

Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in.



I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights.



I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what Iâ€™ve read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators?



There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time?



Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads.

CH601HDS Electrical Loads Analysis1.xls

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CH601HDS Electrical Loads Analysis1.xls

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_________________
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

I bought a 45 amp internally regulated alternator to install in my HDS Corvair, and sold it after figuring out that there is no way to make it fit under the nosebowl.  If you are going with the WW Corvair conversion, the small dynamo is the only thing that will fit.  Your only other option is to mount the alt in the back of the motor, which will require a little more work than just buying parts from William and bolting them on.  Not too much work, but more... IMHO, load shedding, and possibly going with smaller lights, and LEDs when possible would be easier than engineering your own alternator setup.

   

  You can purchase the overvoltage protection unit from Bob.  I have it installed in my aircraft.  After having a regulator fail in a Citabria, and frying the battery, I like the idea of having built in overvoltage protection.  He now also has a low voltage indication BAMM unit now, but I know nothing about it  other than what it says on the website.

   

  R/

   

  Brandon

   

   



   [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

You could go with a set of HID off-road lights. J.C. Whitney sells a  

pair of KC Hilites for about $640. They're a bit pricey but they put  

out three times the light for less than half of the current draw.  

They're rated at 600,000 candle power for a 35W light.

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William  

 Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical  

 loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings  

 and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is  

 sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of  

 between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I  

 shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights.



 --------

 Rich Whittington

 Tullahoma, TN

 Zenith 601HDS Under Construction


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

A rule of thumb is if you have  a load meter then install loads only up to the capacity of the charging  system.  Without the load meter only install to 80%.  I guess the  reverse is true... without a meter and 30A of continuous use ( everything on  after starting)  the generator/alternator should be capable of producing  36A.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

bretttdc(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

go to www.buildersbooks.com and buy a copy of the Aeroelectric Connection.  I would not recommend even an electrical engineer wire a small plane without it. On of the best specialty texts I have ever seen.  Explanes the consideration for wiring small aircraft.

  

 Brett Do not archive



I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair

conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing

lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor

alternator is sufficient for my application

  

  

 Do not archive



   



 Cheap Talk?

Wingrider

Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Recommendations

Thanks for the advice, it will be a while till I'm at the engine stage but I was trying to figure out what I could use for landing lights before I closed up the wings.



The advice on the AeroElectric group is the Suzuki Sameri alternator which looks like a good option to me.

_________________
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS
Corvair 3 Liter 120HP

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Ac43.13.1b 

  

 Everything you will need to  know about airplanes....  Electrical, avionics, metal work even  tires.

  

 Search for it online I found  one a while ago in pdf format.... High speed then!

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

eedetail

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Idaho

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Recommendations

The pair of 100w landing lights will be overkill in my opinion.

If money is no object go with a pair of HID lights. Xenondepot.com has

a pair for $469 plus shipping. Rated at 35w each, they draw less than 5 amps each. One is as bright or brighter than a 100w bulb. No matter how much light a landing light puts out, it only shows you what you are about to hit, nothing else.

TimE

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Wouldn't this be just under 3 amps?  (Power = Current x Voltage)



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 08:46 AM 12/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Rated at 35w each, they draw less than 5 amps each.


	


-

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

The 35-watt automotive type lights I got from Harbor Freight for less than 

$10 per pair seem to put out as much light as a 100-watt 4509 when I 

compared them.



    Robin in AR

    N601ZV



---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Wouldn't it then be less that 2.5?



---

eedetail

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Idaho

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Recommendations

Well, yes you are both correct.

As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the same power.

My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last nite, using only battery power, and an analog ammeter.

I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will sometimes draw up to 5 amps and trip the breaker.

TimE

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

If the engine is not running you will only get about 11 - 11.5V from your

battery that will cause an increase in current draw.  With the engine

running the buss should have around 13.8 - 14.4V th8us reducing the current

needed.



Circuit breakers protect from over current not wattage.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Wow! Thanks for helping us who are electron challanged.



Do not archive.



---

daveaustin2(at)can.rogers
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Re this current vs. voltage vs. resistance stuff..

If the load is resistive, and the voltage drops, the current will DECREASE.

If the load is a motor, and the voltage drops, the current will usually be

higher as the motor will not reach full rpm.

Learned that 55 years ago..

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

I believe that the BULB is rated at 35W, there is a bit more power  

consumed in the ballast. I ended up putting 10A fuses on my lights.  

The 5A fuses would work most of the time but the surge current on  

starting the lights would eventually blow them. The lights draw  

around 3A steady state.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

>

> 

>

> Well, yes you are both correct.

> As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the

> same power.

> My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last

> nite, using only battery power, and an analog ammeter.

> I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will

> sometimes draw up to 5 amps and trip the breaker.

> TimE

>


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

maybe I'm missing a crucial point, but if the voltage drops, then so does 

the current - Ohm's Law



Dave Johnson



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

What size is your wire and how long is it?

Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

Only if the resistance is constant.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: Alternator Recommendations

You're absolutely correct, that's why you need to know the voltage  

that the power consumption figures were stated for in order to  

calculate current. But you'll get close enough if you assume 12 Volts  

for a 12/14 Volt system or 24 Volts for a 24/28 Volt system.  It's  

not necessary to know the current draw to the nearest tenth of an  

Amp. You should design for at least 120% of your expected load anyway.



A resistive load will not consume the same power at different  

voltages but regulated power supply might. These HID lights have a  

power supply circuit between the bulb and the power source so they  

are not a simple resistive load. Their power consumption curve may  

not be linear with voltage. They are a whole lot more efficient at  

producing light than a halogen light.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com>



 maybe I'm missing a crucial point, but if the voltage drops, then  

 so does the current - Ohm's Law



 Dave Johnson


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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