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access panels

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: access panels

I have a QB fuse and I have been impressed with the quality of the 

workmanship, but I have spent a lot of time trying to route conduit through 

the fuselage sides.  From the plans it looks like the two holes on each 

bulkhead(four per side) were supposed to be drilled to 3/4" diameter.  To me 

it looks like they drilled it to size for the regular size snap bushings 

that are used elsewhere(Like cable runs in the tunnel)



Hence, I have had a heck of a time doing this.  I thought I was being clever 

by uising a 4" CARBON FIBER pushrod used for models to help guide through 

the holes.  A little light was going off in my head after several(Ton) of 

attempts of dragging this rod inside there.  Carbon/aluminum, Pencil/ 

Aluminum???



Now that there is a big unknown about how much carbon residue i left on the 

primed aluminum parts, I am thinking about making some access panel infront 

and inback of these two bulkheads, which will allow me to clean the metal, 

re prime or Beo lube. I addition, route everthing correctly.



I just can't figure away to unscrew the side panels and remove them as many 

are riveted in and gaining access to re rivet would be like taking out major 

assembles(MAJOR)



Any Ideas, has anyone else needed to put in access panels there.  It seems 

non structural as there are so few screws holding things in place.



Hope this is a relief from the engine wars.



John G.

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: access panels

John,



Isn't the carbon fiber wrapped around a rod then sealed with resin to make those rods? I wouldn't think you would get actual carbon scraping off, and pencils use graphite right? not carbon.



Just a thought...



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: access panels

Graphite cloth is Carbon Fiber cloth.  They are interchangeably the

same.  Their galvanic nobility with aluminum is anodic/cathodic.

Separating the two in construction is a valued step. In reality it is

not a serious issue.  With titanium, stress cracks can develop when

exposed to heat.  Hence we never use pencil marks in aviation

construction.



Larger lightening holes with a flared radius for reinforcement would

provide valuable wire routing - for those like me on the really slow

build schedule.  You might have to drill out and modify with a re-rivet

at the end the quick-build panel.



Those who have gone before us have valuable perspective in such routing.

Rick come on, flyboys should know this.  Naval aviators had to.



John Cox

40600

--

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: access panels

Hi Rick



Graphite is elemental carbon so if a pencil left marks it may be a problem.

That is why we use sharpies when marking parts.



Cheers



Les

--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: access panels

Now that we all understand that graphite is carbon.  What about the 

reaction.  I cannot get a rag in there to clean it off with any cleaner, I 

can't barely get the carbon rod to find the holes. The carbon rod which is 

now bevelled on the end will leave marks on a piece of paper, not as well as 

a pencil but you can see it.  I put tape over the end to stop this, but what 

about what has already occured, just shoot in Boe lube and try for a few 

more twenty minute sessions to get the rod and then the conduit to go 

through the holes, or cut the access panels do a thorough cleaning, line up 

the conduit, but for all other purposes, the panels will probably never be 

used again.



John

[quote]From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: access panels

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:20:30 -0700






Hi Rick



Graphite is elemental carbon so if a pencil left marks it may be a problem.

That is why we use sharpies when marking parts.



Cheers



Les

--

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: access panels

Actually,



My main idea was I had used these R/C push rods before and never had them leave any marks on anything. The final product is very hard and doesn't come off on your hands or material like a "pencil lead"   The ones I used were very smooth on the outside and hard as nails. I prefer the blue pilot pens to Sharpies. Are mechanical pencils OK?  ;p



I used a red pencil a lot working on airplanes though....lots of X's, dashes and diagonals.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: access panels

When fishing wire runs on our air carrier birds, we use a simple brazing

rod with a limitless length of waxed electric tie string taped to the

end.  Unlike an electrician's fish wire (available at the aviation

department of Home Depot) flat with a hook on the end for conduit.  We

just go fishing with the straight rod.



When changing out flexible metal control cables such as the RV-10

rudder,  We tie the terminated end to the string and fish the string by

pulling on the old cable.  We tie a new replacement cable and then pull

the string back through fairleads, cables and pulley runs.  We are often

pulling up to 45 feet on an aileron run. As yet no one has worn one out

to need the technique.



Another trick from HD's aviation department is their heaviest gage of

plastics weed wacker replacement line.  It is great for determining wire

runs.  It tends to bend at a similar radius to wire bundles.  It's

flexible, it's cheap and easy to work with.  Lancair used it to

determine their wire panels (4 x 8 sheets of plywood) to pre-wire

complete aircraft on the board in the avionics department.  Randy DeBauw

(#40006)or the boys at Advanced might tell you the lengths needed for

the RV-10 from their doing his entire aircraft back in April of 2005.

During the FWF episode you can check wiring, cables and hose routing

with the stuff.



Electrolysis is not going to be a problem with the residue. Carbon just

like Hydrogen Embrittlement can change the molecular structure of sheet

metal.  It becomes more brittle and cracks can ensue. Galvanic issues

are where two dissimilar materials such as Alclad and carbon fiber are

nested together in the presence of humidity. This is not a problem in

this application.  Ask Van's Techline if you are concerned.



John Cox

--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: access panels

Grease pencils okay but highly inaccurate.  Anyone remember James McClow

and is color crayon sized cut lines?



Sharpies (which cleaned with alcohol) are great.  Pencils either

physical or mechanical are VERBOTTEN.  Not for layup, not for cut marks,

not nutten.  All technical writing has to be in pen, so we have to

E.I.E. entries that we screw up.  And I thought pilot logbooks were bad.



In sheet metal layup we use colors such as green, blue and red sharpie

for folds, shearlines and holes.



John Cox

--

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: access panels

Hi John,

  

 I just put some access panels in the baggage floor.  See my post on 11/14/06 , it has some pictures.

  

 You probably need two more access panels in the passenger seat floors.  This will give you access to both bays.  I would create access panels in lieu of drilling out the panels as the access panels will be usefull for maintenance.  I thnk the access panels should have been designed into the kit.

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: access panels

John where are you talking about that you need a rod to get to, are you

talking about the side panels under the door frames? You can call me

directly, if you want to and discuss this, because once I remove all the

panels on the QB there is not an area I can not get to other than under

the front footwells. I am having a hard time understanding where you are

trying to get to that you would have to cut access holes.

Dan

724-983-1221 



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: access panels

Daniel it is 8:15pm here so I'll call you tomorrow as it is probably late 

east of here.



Thanks,



John



[quote]From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: access panels

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:55:27 -0500






John where are you talking about that you need a rod to get to, are you

talking about the side panels under the door frames? You can call me

directly, if you want to and discuss this, because once I remove all the

panels on the QB there is not an area I can not get to other than under

the front footwells. I am having a hard time understanding where you are

trying to get to that you would have to cut access holes.

Dan

724-983-1221



--

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