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Rotax 582 plugs
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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Subject:  Spark Plug Gap



Can anyone tell me the proper spark plug for  a Rotax 582?



Frank



 Hi ! Frank,

                     The Rotax recomended plug is NGK B8ES for the grey head and BR8ES for the Blue  head.  The "R" is for resistor. Really you should not use resistor plugs  with resistor caps although I think Rotax did it with the blue head 582.   Generally use resistor either in the plug or the cap but not both to help with  ignition noise in the radio. A resistor plug and resistor cap have been used  together for persistent cases of interference and if you really need both I  guess you can use both but personally I wouldn't. The high [ typically 5K + 5K =  10K ] resistance increases the voltage build up before the plug fires. This  might have a slight advantage re firing under some conditions although offset by  the lower firing current, however the higher voltage is more likely to lead to a  CDI [ Capacitive Discharge Ignition ] failure. Generally you will get a better  spark the lower the resistance.

   Sometimes you will see Rotax   distributors listing the plug as a number rather than B8ES etc. This is mainly  to just get you to buy from them, however there is another suttle difference.  The little screw on cap. This can be brass, aluminium, fixed or with the right  caps you just use the thread. My choice out of all this is the resistor plug  with a non resistor cap with just the thread being used. My reasoning is using  just the thread makes it more secure and you don't have issues with the  aluminium caps or the caps coming lose. I also prefer the resistor in the plug  rather than the cap because it can and does fail. If it's in the plug you are  changing it when you change plugs and the extra cost of a resistor plug is  minimal.

   To complicate it a bit though I'm now going  to tell you that I use NGK BR8EIX plugs. These are Iridium and used in inverted  motors. The reason being is they stand up to the harder conditions like fouling  etc. As you can see the BR8E part is the same the IX is for "I"  fine  Iridium centre electrode. "X"  Booster gap [ "S" standard centre  electrode.]  Now I haven't checked but I'm not sure if you can get this  plug with the screw on cap so you can use just the thread. I am using fixed cap  plugs at the moment but will change if I can shortly. These plugs are working  really well for me with non resistor caps. You can get whatever caps you need  from an auto parts store.

   Rotax  recommended gap setting is 16 to  20 thou. I set mine to 20 thou.  This raises another point if you use the  Iridium plugs. The packet says not to adjust the gap and from memory it's set  about 30 thou. Not a good idea for our application. However you can adjust the  gap just be very carefull not to stress the very fine iridium centre electrode  especially by pulling a feeler gauge across it and putting side pressure one it  that's all.

                              Rex.

   [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Rex, 

  

 I have a few things to add.  when you buy  BR8ES or B8ES from a Rotax dealer they will most likely have solid tips and not  screw on tips.  Screw on tips are bad news as they are softer than the  llittle clip inside those  5k ohm cap which is steel. 

 Also they come pre gapped about  .016 to 020  so adjust will be minimal  wheras bought form other place I have seen  them  .030 or larger gap.  That take a good bend to adjust gap.   

  

 I have asked several Rotax dealers about the  iridiums and they say no gain to be had but a owners choice.  I have just  shy of 100 hours on my plugs now in my Blue head since July and still running  fine and I checked about  5 hours ago and they had minimal deposits on them  and looked good. I use only regular gas and bombardier XPS mineral oil.  

  

 Now the gray head uses ducati igntion as well   but the older ones had points and in that case you are correct to use B8ES and  5k resistor caps but not resistor plugs and caps on point ignition.  I have  had Blue heads and gray heads and performance wise they about the  same.   

  

 I would suggest that Solid tip plugs from rotax is  the best choice.   The plug caps can and will fall off other  wise.   Some will safety wire , tiewrap  etc but why not just use  the proper plug ? 

  

  

 Dave   

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

I was not aware that the NGK BR/B8 plugs came with  anything other than the standard screw on top.  These are standard out of  the box plugs for many applications.   Are you saying that Rotax  modifies these standard plugs for Rotax use or does NGK produce a plug that is  modified for aircraft use?  I'm confused?  I've always used the  standard (auto parts store) NGK plugs however, I perform a minor adjustment to  the screw on top.  I "stake" the cap lightly with a cold chisel to secure  it to the threads.  I also use a different little method to close the .030  gap to .016.

  

 Don Smythe

  

 ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Ok Don, I did a quick search on Google and found  some info here

 http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm

  

 Hope this helps ,  Dave    

   

 Spark Plugs 

The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R" denotes a  resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of spark plugs with  a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is mandatory. The latter can  unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark plug connector cap, creating an  ignition failure. 

Spark plug gap    Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"    
Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"    
The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help starting in very    cold conditions  

To be avoided:    Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents    
Screwed-on tips    
Unverified spark plug gaps    
      
 More  here .   scroll to   bottom     http://www.ultralightnews.ca/articles/resistorcapsandplugs.htm

   

     Also  here  

       http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/rotax_447_plugs.pdf

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~stclub/STC_ga/plugs.htm

  

 more  talk here on NGK caps and   plugs     http://www.pcpros.net/~tvoss/techTip/200205.htm

  

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

At 11:25 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Generally use resistor either in the plug or the cap but not both to help 

with ignition noise in the radio.


	


How do I check whether I have resistor caps or not? Is it simply 5k ohms 

between the plug and wire contacts? I guess I therefore have to remove the 

caps from the wires. Is there anything special I should do to put them back 

together, such as conductive grease, etc.?



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Guy,  Yes,  just unscrew the cap and check with ohm  meter.



Dave

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Ok, I read it and it seems to  contradict itself because I have to go back to my original question.  Where  can you purchase an NGK BR8ES spark plug that has a solid tip.  I just went  quickly to the NGK site and can't find a reference to a solid tip  plug  The author of the article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK  BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw on tips.  Where did he buy  them?  

     The other article you sent  allowed screw on tips but said to crimp/peen/glue the screw on  caps.

  

 Don Smythe

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don, I buy all plugs from Rotax distributor.   I am not exactly sure why it is like this 

 I would suggest   Bob Robertson as I have  used him with excellent service. 

 Down south any Rotax shop will  have them I am  sure. 

 I found this picon this site  http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/profile/Ngk104-0.jpg

 Shows a solid tip. 

  

 Now if you like i can go out to shop and take some  pics for you later ?   Let me know . I might have some screw  tips  that have damage tips worn as I have decribed. ? 

  

 Dave 

  

 Also the first one is from a another quality Rotax  Shop in Canada and he says same

 >> 

 

To be avoided:    Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents    
Screwed-on tips    
Unverified spark plug gaps <<  

 ---

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs  is      #3683

                              #BR8ES  solid  cap                  #3961

 These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts  store and they will be able to order them then .

  

 John Perry

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Dave,

     I guess we are never too old to  learn something new.  I've done some web searching and do find references  to "aviation" type (solid tip) NGK plugs (even a statement from NGK).   Another interesting thing I ran across was a statement by NGK that stated "NONE"  of their plugs are recommended for aviation use.  About half of what you  read on things like this are "liability" statements from different  manufactures.

     When I was building, I went into  a business that sold nylon webbing.  I had an idea of fabricating my own  seat belts.  When I mentioned airplane, the store salesman "actually"  refused to sell me the webbing.

     I've always used the standard  auto store NGK's but do crimp the caps to the threads.  Another thing that  I discussed with a Rotax Center (name unmentioned) was proper gapping of the  plugs out of the box.  If you bend an electrode from .030" to .018" you  don't get a good parallel gap.  I started placing the plug in a vice and  very gently tapping the electrode at a 45 degree angle.  This helped the  gapping to give a better parallel fit.  As I said, I discussed this with a  very well know Rotax Center and we agreed it was a possible good  approach?????

  

 Don Smythe

 Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

John,

     Thanks, that clears this up for  me.  I went to the NGK web site and sure enough, your numbers pulled up a  plug that said "SOLID" behind the plug number.  Good information.   Learn something new every day.  Who said this list didn't produce good  information.  Sorry Dave, I was about to doubt you.

  

 Don Smythe

 Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don,  No problem. 

  

 I took a pic today , not the best but you can  clearly see the flat side on alum screw tip  here    http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.html

  

 Hope this helps you all and What site do you see  the NGK number working at ?   I just buy from Rotax with other   orders. 

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

aerocontrols(at)clearwave
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Hi Don, Guy and Dave.



The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive plugs. 

They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the standard icon.

They come from the factory gapped at .0035.  they are very hard to re-gap to 

.018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when re-gapped to 

.018-.020".

Plug ground tbs should be parallel to the electrode, not simply bent down so 

that one side is gapped correctly.

We tried these plugs and found them to be really hard to gap properly.

The plugs you get from your Rotax Service Centers/Repair Stations are 

pre-gapped to .018".  The ground tab is a bit shorter on these than the 

automotibe plugs so the eng of the ground tab

is adjacent to the edge of the electrode when it is set parallel and at 

.018/.020"

Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply 

tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode will 

not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).



Just my two cents.

BTW....You can hit up your supplier for a better price if you order in bulk. 

(Dave does...8^)



regards



Bob Robertson

Light Engine Services Ltd.

Rotax Service Center

Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.

St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8

Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164

Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)

www.rtx-av-engines.ca

www.aerocontrols.net



---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Bob,    Take a peek at this pic i took this am 

http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.html

I have seen this time and time again with those screw top  plugs.



I will  be calling you soon for some Carb sockets for abunch of 582's  here

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is      #3683

                             #BR8ES solid cap                 #3961

************

Hello Bob,

    OK, you're right, I'm confused.  The above was posted this morning 

giving the NGK plug numbers.  I checked their web site and they are listed 

as "solid" cap I guess.  Are you saying the above are for auto use only and 

not aircraft.  Are you also saying that NGK sells a special aircraft plug 

that is gapped at .018 and can be bought through Rotax Centers?  I remember 

talking to you years ago about tapping down those .030 plugs to .018.  This 

is the first time I've ever heard of an NGK plug that is for aircraft only. 

Help me out here I need to get some plugs soon.



Don Smythe

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Here are plugs from AC Spruce

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ngkplugs.php

 Here are plugs from CPS

 http://www.rotaxparts.net/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=985

  

 Neither of these two Companies address the solid  tip or the pre-gapping of .018".  Are both of these the standard Auto plug  and not the ones we need for aviation?

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

dwight purdy

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don

  I had them looked up at the local auto store. I will look and get the number off the box and get back with you. If your order your plugs from CPS , they will be the solid tips.



                     Dwight



 



 

 At 07:43 AM 12/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 [quote]    Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to go back to my original question.  Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES spark plug that has a solid tip.  I just went quickly to the NGK site and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug  The author of the article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw on tips.  Where did he buy them?  

     The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.

  

 Don Smythe

  

  

   ---

_________________
dwight
model II

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Sorry, I'm still out to lunch on this  subject.  According to Bob Robertson the solid core plugs are automotive  only.  You say CPS will deliver solid tips.  Solid tips/solid core  plugs (same or different).  This also doesn't address the plug gaps that  are delivered with pre-set .018" or .030."  The .030" are difficult to set  properly.  If there is an NGK BR8ES plug that comes with solid tips and  pre-gapped to .018" then that's the plug I think I want.

     I'll be happy when this  confusion on my part is settled.

  

 Thanks

 Don Smythe

 Do Not Archive

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 plugs

Don , I just read the postd from Bob  again.   

  

 <Hi Don, Guy  and Dave.



The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly  automotive plugs. 

They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the  standard icon.

They come from the factory gapped at .0035.  they are  very hard to re-gap to 

.018 as the ground tab will extend well past the  electrode when re-gapped to 

.018-.020".

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  
	


 I just order from Bob and he send what I need but  surely any Rotax dealer would have them and he also gave you a part number (  rotax number) 

 >Gosh, I  hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply 

tapping down  the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode will 

not last near  as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).

<

  

 And Like I said earlier I am almost at   100 hours on mine in 582 since July and it running fine.   ( I am  being stubborn here but it will make 100 easy      )

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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