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IFR panels

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David Lee

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: GSO

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: IFR panels

What do people use for an IFR panel, mostly glass with some electric back-up instruments. Under consideration are the new ACS 3500 or dual Dynon large screens. What would you have with them for IFR? I am avoiding vac instruments and trying to avoid an IFR gps (Garmin 430). Costs and weight are a factor. This be on a RV 7 under construction.



Additional ideas are welcome. All of my previous flying has been with "old fashioned" instruments plus an ifr gps (430 or -89B).



Suggestions and opinions please.



Thanks,

David

N777TY

Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: IFR panels

David,



I wouldn't overlook a 2-screen GRT system.  Feature-wise, it seems to be ahead of Dynon or AFS.  Yes, it's lacking (relatively speaking) in the looks department, but it makes up for it with features that neither of the other two have (granted, details on what AFS is capable of are still pretty sketchy).



Backup -- a typical trio (ASI, electric AI and altimeter) would probably work out ok.

Additional point -- while I'm no authority on the subject, it's hard to picture an IFR bird today w/o an IFR/approach approved GPS.



Just MHO.

Radomir

-7A Panel



---

_________________
RV-7A
N777TY

David Lee

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: GSO

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: IFR panels

Bill & Radomir,



I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.!  I am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. 



I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes?



Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon.



David

bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: IFR panels

David,



I am a simple VFR type (My last plane, 1941 BC-12/65, did not even have

an electrical system.) and when I talk to RV builder/owners who have

equipped their planes with IFR panels I am always surprised to find that

they rarely use it.  To the point where many of them have told me that

next time they will leave it VFR only.



Maybe some of the others on the list can add there $.02 worth.



Having said that, I am reserving the right to upgrade my panel in the

future, if I ever get the IFR bug.



As for the Garmin 496, I installed an AirGizmo

(http://www.airgizmos.com/) in my panel with the angle adapter so it

will be slanted towards me.  Great device and it has let me build up my

panel without actually owning a GPS.  In January I hope the price comes

down a notch so I can purchase a 496.  Pictures are at the bottom of

this page: http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html



Bill



--

Larry Bowen

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: IFR panels

For me, the perspective really changed when I move from building a panel to

flying behind it. I have backups in my RV-8 that I will not bother to have

in the 7 -- as the panel page on a Garmin x96 is good enough.  And, the

'glass' the x96 is backing up is super reliable & many have internal battery

backups.  Maybe the answer is keep it simple, but plan for expansion and

flexibility.  Mostly VFR thoughts, but maybe some of it applies to your

question...



-

Larry Bowen

Larry(at)BowenAero.com

http://BowenAero.com

 



[quote] --

_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...

bburril(at)carolina.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: IFR panels

Bill just get a 396 it does everything that a 496 does just not as fast,and 

for a lot less.



 Ben

---

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: IFR panels

David, 



I about fell over when you mentioned the "older military and airline flyers".  Are you talking to me?  

I have dual screen GRT EFIS with internal GPS and a Garmin 296, Trio aiutopilot with altitude hold, SL-30 nav/com, 327 transponder and PSE audio panel with marker beacon.  I have an altimeter and airspeed indicator for backup instruments.  I probably won't have too many occasions to fly IFR in the RV-8, but if there is no chance of thunderstorms or iceing, why not.  The GPS is great for enroute nav (I like the 296 much more than the GRT internal) and I can use the SL-30 for ILS or VOR approaches.  An autopilot is a "must have" for IFR in the RV IMHO and also serves as a backup turn and bank indicator, so I don't feel the need to have a backup attitude indicator. And I certainly won't put anything in my panel that has a mecanical (electric or vacuum) gyro that will get abused every time I do acro.



Ron Schreck

RV-8 "Miss Izzy"

Gold Hill Airpark, NC



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 From: "David Lee" <odlee(at)bellsouth.net>

 Date: 2006/12/06 Wed PM 05:44:56 EST

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: IFR panels

 

 

 

 Bill & Radomir,

 

 I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.!  I am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. 

 

 I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes?

 

 Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon.

 

 David

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653

bburril(at)carolina.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: IFR panels

He said older not ancient!

---

David Lee

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: GSO

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: IFR panels

Thanks guys,



Ron, I did not mention any names!! 



As for the rest the opinions are varied as I suspected they might be.  If you don't fly IFR you don't need to spend all the money and time. The planes are fast, responsive, light, economical, etc...all the reason I'm building. I am just use to going when the weather is not cavu, although I may change my mind after flying the RV a bit (whenever that is going to be).



Still pondering.



David

tadsargent(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: IFR panels

David have you considered the Garmin 300XL at  2500

or the SL30 with an indicator to be added later or hooked up to a glass 

panel.

Tad

---

David Lee

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: GSO

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: Re: IFR panels

Yep Tad,



The SL30 w/indicator will be there. I want the 496 or equivalent for the weather since I will not have a strormscope or radar. Thought about the 300xl as it is an IFR unit, but...again why do I need two GPS units. You can go w/ the 430, eliminate the SL30, but spend more money for only the ability to shoot a WAAS approach someday! You can fly IFR with the 496, along as you can also fly the route utilizing an approved method, namely the vors.



Thanks for the comments. Still want to fly in your plane someday.



David

Lenleg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: IFR panels

Bill:

  

 Do you have some type of inside info that prices could be coming down in  January ????  

  

 Fingers crossed ...

  

 Len

  

  

 In a message dated 12/6/2006 9:37:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  bill(at)repucci.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"    <bill(at)repucci.com>



David,



I am a simple VFR type (My last    plane, 1941 BC-12/65, did not even have

an electrical system.) and when I    talk to RV builder/owners who have

equipped their planes with IFR panels I    am always surprised to find that

they rarely use it.  To the point    where many of them have told me that

next time they will leave it VFR    only.



Maybe some of the others on the list can add there $.02    worth.



Having said that, I am reserving the right to upgrade my panel    in the

future, if I ever get the IFR bug.



As for the Garmin 496, I    installed an AirGizmo

(http://www.airgizmos.com/) in my panel with the    angle adapter so it

will be slanted towards me.  Great device and it    has let me build up my

panel without actually owning a GPS.  In    January I hope the price comes

down a notch so I can purchase a 496.     Pictures are at the bottom of

this page:    http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html



Bill



-----Original    Message-----

From:    owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com]    On Behalf Of David

Lee

Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:45 PM

To:    rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: IFR    panels

--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "David Lee"    

--> <odlee(at)bellsouth.net>



Bill & Radomir,



I've    been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.!  I am    planning

the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but    having

trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of    IFR

in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used    a

Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes,    RMI,

NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy),    rest

ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. 



I am basically cheap    and also trying to determine how much IFR will

actually be flown in the RV.    Totally different profile than my earlier

aircraft. Wonder how many of the    "older" military and airline flyers

equip their planes?



Thanks for    the response. I hope to see your projects    soon.



David





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653

sp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE   find  fts  ic    you for  nbsp;                    -Matt Dralle, List  Use  lities  Day       -->  =====



	


 

  

  [quote][b]

bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: IFR panels

Len,

  

 I sure wish I did have some inside info but Garmin is very tight with the  pricing.  I do know a guy who's son works there and tried to get some info  that way but no joy.  

  

 From what I have been reading, Garmin holds all of their dealers to a  "Advertised Suggested Retail Price" but if you call the various dealers, they  will cut that price.  About the lowest I have heard is around $2,400 but I  don't know if that is true or forum BS.

  

 Either way, in January I am going to start calling around to see what I can  work up.

  

 If some of are SERIOUS about buying a 496 let me know and I'll see if  I can work a group buy.  Who knows, we might get lucky.



 To make this clear, all I want to know is if you are SERIOUS about buying a  496.  When I go the vendors (and possibly Garmin) I want hard orders, not  "maybe orders".  I will NOT take any action until after the first of the  year.

  

 As for paying for the thing, I will try to work it where each of you gives  the supplier a credit card number so I don't have to deal with payment.   However, to get the best price, they may only wish to deal with one person, if  that is the case, I will let you know and we can take it from  there.



Bill

  



 

 --

bburril(at)carolina.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: IFR panels

Bill,why don,t you go with the 396.The pricing is very good,it does  everything that the 496 does.You problably will not out grow it ether.

  

  Ben  

 [quote]   ---

bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: IFR panels

Ben,

  

 I hope to get a deal on the 496 and bring it  down close to the list price of the 396 and I look at buying these things like  buying a new PC.  I purchase the biggest unit I can for the money and hope  it isn't outdated until it dies.

  

 You are right, for a VFR pilot like myself,  I'm not sure the 496 offers that much over the 396.

  

 Bill

  

 

 --

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