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ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

I replaced my 447 with 401 hours on it with out a problem just because I don't stay at the home patch when I go flying  and don't want to have to put her in the woods because of the unknown engine failure time 

 

 What is the normal engine replacement that others are getting and on what engines?

 

  Ellery Original Firestar

 do not archive  [quote][b]

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

Hi Ellery,

             Did you sell your engine before you took it off the plane ?



 Somebody on the list said that's the best way to do it,...people can see 



there's nothing wrong with it . (except high time)



         Nothin like headed out with a low time engine...I'll bet John's gonna 



do some big hops after he puts in his new 912...



                           Gotta Fly...

                                           Mike & "Jaz" in MN

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

In a message dated 12/9/2006 7:21:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  What is the normal engine replacement that others are getting and on what engines? 	


 Best thing to do is ignore 90% of what you read on the internet about overhauling at 300 or 400 hours...& a lot of other B.S. Most of these statements are made by armchair bullshitters with nothing else to do but sit at their computers spewing bullshit...and I don't give a crap what the owner's manual says. 

  

 I've worked both 503s & 582s for the past near 30 years. Worked them very, very hard towing hang gliders & doing aerial photography. Wide open, full throttle, slow speed tows from 3,000 to 5,000 ft. The Kolb I use for aerial photography goes wide open to 15,000 ft.

  

 The Kolb is a low time 503 with about 270 hours on it...a mere child. The Edge X 503 I have is at 230 hours...another baby.

  

 The Tukan 503 I have for fun flying & towing is closing on 1,500 hours. I plan to take it to 2,000 hours & beyond. I've topped it only twice in the last 8 years. It could use a top now but still runs fine, still tows gliders & banners at full throttle.

  

 The 582 I had on a previous Maxair had over 1,000 hours & the biggest mistake I made was overhauling that one. When we decided to overhaul it, we turned the motor up-right in order to swing a wider prop. We neglected to turn the oil reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft. I had 3 or 4 engine failures before we figured out what was wrong.

  

 I've used Pennzoil & a clutch on all aircraft except the Kolb. The Kolb I'm anxious to see how far it goes without a clutch. Do NOT be afraid to run these motors wide open. They love it, revel in it & are made for it.

  

 IF IT AIN'T BROKE...DON'T FIX IT.

  

 Now you'll get to hear from all the armchair bullshiters telling you to ignore all the above.

  

 Bill Catalina

 Ochlockonee Bay, FL

  [quote][b]

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

At 07:20 AM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I replaced my 447 with 401 hours on it with out a problem just because I don't stay at the home patch when I go flying  and don't want to have to put her in the woods because of the unknown engine failure time 



 What is the normal engine replacement that others are getting and on what engines?



 Ellery Original Firestar

 do not archive 

 	




 I got 708 hrs so far on mine - 503 dual carb,

 but I think the 503 is tougher than a 447.

 And I already know you're not supposed to do that.



  http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modrearframe.jpg

     [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

|  We neglected to turn the oil

| reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft. I had 3 or 4 engine 

failures

| before we figured out what was wrong.

| |

| Now you'll get to hear from all the armchair bullshiters telling you 

to

| ignore all the above.

|

| Bill Catalina



Hi Bill C:



Looks like you have a lot more experience with ultralights and two 

strokes than I do.  I haven't owned one since 1993, when the 582 that 

powered my mkIII seized.  Yep, at about 220 hours.  Must not have been 

running it hard enough.  



Anyhow, with limited experience with the 582, 220 hours on mine, and 

some time with factory mkIII and SS powered by the 582, I am not 

familiar with the "oil reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft" 

you mention reference you "3 or 4 engine failures."  Could you explain 

that system for me please.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

At 03:32 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>



 |  We neglected to turn the oil

 | reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft. I had 3 or 4 engine 

 failures

 | before we figured out what was wrong.



 Anyhow, with limited experience with the 582, 220 hours on mine, and 

 some time with factory mkIII and SS powered by the 582, I am not 

 familiar with the "oil reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft" 

 you mention reference you "3 or 4 engine failures."  Could you explain 

 that system for me please.



 john h

 mkIII 	


 Maybe this is what he is talking about on overhauls and crankshafts:



 

   "If I were to write it for the 447, it would be 600 hours and it would be

  closer to 900 hours for the 377.  I'm one that thinks the 300 hours is about

  right for the 582 though.  If you have had the opportunity to look at

  various crankshafts in 2-stroke engines of this size you will notice that

  the lower rod area on the Rotax crankshaft has much less slop side to side

  and less of an area for lubrication to make it into the bearing.  The 377

  and 447 have a slit on either side of the lower rod, but the 503 and 582

  only have a slit on one side. 

  Since the time has been put on fast, you have been able to go that long 

  but even engines that get time fast like that are probably likely to need 

  at least some attention by 500.



  If I was the one writing the TBO for the 503 I would put it at 450 because

  that is about where I start seeing crank failures even with well kept

  engines." 



  Tom Olenik

  Olenik Aviation

  from the archives: 06/20/05



 



      [quote][b]

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

John,

The oil injection pump depends on gravity flow to feed the pump.

When he changed his engine from a plugs down configuration to a plugs  

up configuration without relocating the oil reservoir he no longer  

had enough height to gravity flow the oil to the pump when the oil  

level in the tank  went down some.



At least that is my take on what he wrote.

On Dec 9, 2006, at 3:32 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 |  We neglected to turn the oil

 | reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft. I had 3 or 4 engine

 failures

 | before we figured out what was wrong.

 | |

 | Now you'll get to hear from all the armchair bullshiters telling you

 to

 | ignore all the above.

 |

 | Bill Catalina



 Hi Bill C:



 Looks like you have a lot more experience with ultralights and two

 strokes than I do.  I haven't owned one since 1993, when the 582 that

 powered my mkIII seized.  Yep, at about 220 hours.  Must not have been

 running it hard enough.  



 Anyhow, with limited experience with the 582, 220 hours on mine, and

 some time with factory mkIII and SS powered by the 582, I am not

 familiar with the "oil reservoir which supplies oil to the crankshaft"

 you mention reference you "3 or 4 engine failures."  Could you explain

 that system for me please.



 john h

 mkIII

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

I assume he is referring to the oil reservoir which is plumbed to the center 

section of the crankcase, housing the crank part that drives the water pump 

and the rotary valve. Picture here -

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg2.htm

Bottom of the page on the left -



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

dna



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

No I plan on rebuilding it and installing it on my other firestar 

 

 Ellery 

 do not archive  [quote][b]

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

 	  Quote: 	
		  What is the normal engine replacement that others are getting and on what engines?



 Ellery Original Firestar

 do not archive   Since the time has been put on yours fast - (100 hrs per yr.), you have been able to go that long,  but even engines that get time fast like that are likely to need  at least some attention by 500. Tom Olenik 	
   Olenik Aviation



 I think the biggest thing that you can do is run your engine every week - if you can. Even if it is only

 for 15 minutes sitting on the ground - run it up some! I know, if you fold your wings, you 

 can't, but the worst thing you could do is store it

 without properly preparing it for storage. If it sits there for months or even weeks

 with the muffler unplugged and the air filter uncovered (they make covers) then

 the crankshaft is going to get some corrosion/rust on the bearings. 50 hours

 during the summer & 10 hours during the winter ain't going to do it.

 Again, not to belabor the point - but I think 706 hrs without a decarb, never had the

 jugs off - I check the inside with a dental mirror and flashlight thru the plug 

 holes - muffler and carbs off (no carbon to mention) Wallmart oil 

 "or whatever oil you're religion allows you to use".

 Every 100 hours - check the compression (still 120 - just like it came out of the box) 

 rings aren't stuck etc. 

 I'll probably get 800 hrs outa this thing, maybe 900? That's what they're getting overseas.

 I do change the plugs every 25 hrs - the expensive plugs - whatever that's worth.

 Maybe I just got a good engine, who knows? I've had others back in the 90's that we 

 decarboned every 50 hours (447s), and all that did was f--k them up. They never line back up

 exactly like you took them apart, even with the right tools. The pistons never seat

 like they did before you "fixed" it. I've been breaking these things since 1983.

 BTW - I'm not an engine guy - I just barely understand how these things work,

 but I figure I got about 38,000 miles on the one I got now ,,,not bad for a 7 year old 

 $4,400 UL engine.

 Around the world 1 1/2 times - right?? Most of my time is local, around at 4,400 to

 6,000 RPM. I do some trips now and again (Not like John H) , but I like to fly slow and low.

 These things are like motorcycles - with wings - not cars. I don't want to climb Mt. Everest,

 I don't want to drive from Georgia to California - been there done that.

  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4742969166825363751&hl=en

 When It’s Time To Decarbon??

   http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part47.pdf    [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

Thanks for the info mabe I should just re install my old engine and finish wearing it out 

 

  Ellery

 do not archive  [quote][b]

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

Ellery...

  

 Did you ever get your floats installed?...  Like it's the right time of year, not...

  

 If you did, give us some pictures...

  

 DVD



 

 On 12/14/06, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com) <ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com)> wrote: [quote]Thanks for the info mabe I should just re install my old engine and finish wearing it out  



Ellery

do not archive [b]

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

ElleryWeld(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Kolb-List:engine replacement time

No I got busy working on everyone elses Planes and never got the time to install my floats but if the weather gets bad this winter mabe I can find time to do it then  I will post it when ever it happens 

 

    Ellery with 2 sets of floats that haven't seen water 

 

            do not archive  [quote][b]

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