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Landing Lights

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demeo(at)sonic.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Landing Lights

One tip and one comment:



Tip:  Be sure to install the lights with the light filament vertical.  

Several builders have had to replace lights after hard landings because 

of horizontal filament position.



Comment:  I am color blind and have that limitation on my medical.  

Therefore I cannot fly at night.  There is no night endorsement.  

Anyone with a private pilot rating who is not color blind can fly at 

night so long as current for night flying.  I installed lights for 

resale value, though I don't plan to resell.  But, if something happens 

to me, my wife can sell for better value.  Pretty fancy estate 

planning, huh?



do not archive



Bradford J. DeMeo

565 West College Avenue

Santa Rosa, CA 95401

(707) 545-3232

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Landing Lights

To be more specific: anyone with a private pilot certificate or  

higher with a valid FAA medical certificate and a current BFR can fly  

at night in any aircraft he is rated to fly that is equipped for  

night flight. He does not need to be night current to fly at night  

but if he isn't night current he can't carry passengers until he is  

night current in that category and class. It doesn't matter what  

category the airplane is certificated under as long as it is properly  

equipped for night flight and has no specific restrictions against  

night flight. A sport pilot or anyone operating under sport pilot  

rules (without a medical certificate) may not fly at night. The FAA  

defines night as "the time between the end of evening civil twilight  

to the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the  

American Air Almanac, converted to local time".



-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: Landing Lights

Brad-

    Good tip.

    I don't fly at night much but figured, as many other builders have, that 

having my project night capable would increase the resale value. Custom 

built the installation in my HDS (Following Jeff Small's recommendation to 

try and counteract the left turning tendancy) by putting as much dead weight 

in the RIGHT wing. I'm not the first to do this.

    Just dug out the receipts for my bulbs. $12.54 each at Car Care. Add the 

hardware and everything else and I might have $50.00 in my installation. 

'Course you could buy a C-152 for what it cost if you count my time (Even at 

minimum wage) but the personal satisfaction is priceless!!!

                                  Do not archive

Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa

---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Landing Lights

Way off the original question but as a Sport Pilot I'll be using my lights

with a wig-wag to make me more visible in the daytime. That's why I'm glad

to have a light in each wing instead of the factory design with two lights

in one wing.



-- Craig

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: Landing Lights

Hi Bill,



I opted for navigation lights and strobes but no landing lights for 

my XL even though I cannot legally fly at night.  I hold a private 

license and have had adequate night flying training and experience, 

but plan to operate under Sport Pilot limitations so I don't have to 

fight for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate.



I believe the landing light is not required by any regulation for 

night operations. It may have value - primarily in daylight flight - 

for collision avoidance, but in my humble experience is mostly 

worthless for use in the dark.



My personal thinking is that while I will not plan for night 

operation I might get caught with a late landing and want the minimum 

lighting for legal flight at night.  I think that is the navigation 

lights, and the strobes just make sense even if they are not actually 

required.  If I get caught making a night landing with my Sport Pilot 

restrictions, then I guess I will face the music.



Best regards,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 04:24 PM 12/12/2006, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Brad-

    Good tip.

    I don't fly at night much but figured, as many other builders 

 have, that having my project night capable would increase the 

 resale value. Custom built the installation in my HDS (Following 

 Jeff Small's recommendation to try and counteract the left turning 

 tendancy) by putting as much dead weight in the RIGHT wing. I'm not 

 the first to do this.

    Just dug out the receipts for my bulbs. $12.54 each at Car Care. 

 Add the hardware and everything else and I might have $50.00 in my 

 installation. 'Course you could buy a C-152 for what it cost if you 

 count my time (Even at minimum wage) but the personal satisfaction 

 is priceless!!!

                                  Do not archive

Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa


	


---------------------------------------------

Paul Mulwitz

32013 NE Dial Road

Camas, WA 98607

---------------------------------------------

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Landing Lights

According to the FARs: Anti-collision lights (strobes) are required  

on all aircraft, day or night. Nav lights are only required from  

sunset to sunrise. A landing light is only required on aircraft  

operated for hire.



A landing light is not really required for landing on a lighted  

runway. I've landed without a landing light several times, mostly  

because the cowl mounted landing lights tended to have a short  

service life and would often quit unexpectedly. Landing lights are  

good for alerting you to deer on the runway though, they're very hard  

to see otherwise.



On Dec 16, 2006, at 9:37 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I opted for navigation lights and strobes but no landing lights for  

 my XL even though I cannot legally fly at night.



 I believe the landing light is not required by any regulation for  

 night operations. It may have value - primarily in daylight flight  

 - for collision avoidance, but in my humble experience is mostly  

 worthless for use in the dark.



 I think that is the navigation lights, and the strobes just make  

 sense even if they are not actually required.


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Landing Lights

§ 91.209   Aircraft lights.

No person may:



(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon)—



(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;



(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft—



(i) Is clearly illuminated;



(ii) Has lighted position lights; or



(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;



(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft—



(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or



(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or



(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.



 	  Quote: 	
		  According to the FARs: Anti-collision lights (strobes) are required 

on all aircraft, day or night. 	




Per (b) above it looks like anticollision lights must be on if the aircraft has them. But not all aircraft are required to have them. Certainly this would keep the no-electrical-system crowd in their hangars even during the day.



Bill Mileski

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Landing Lights

According to the EAA, the minimum equipment rule (91.205) applies to  

standard category aircraft but not experimental category, so  

homebuilts aren't required to have strobes for day VFR. However, the  

homebuilt Operating Limitations require you to comply with this rule  

for night flight. So if you have strobes they generally have to be  

on, but if you won't be flying your homebuilt after sunset, you don't  

need to install strobes, but if your homebuilt was built recently.

On Dec 16, 2006, at 7:51 PM, billmileski wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <mileski(at)sonalysts.com>

 § 91.209   Aircraft lights.

 No person may:

 (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision  

 light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However,  

 the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in- 

 command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would  

 be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

> According to the FARs: Anti-collision lights (strobes) are required

> on all aircraft, day or night.

 Per (b) above it looks like anticollision lights must be on if the  

 aircraft has them. But not all aircraft are required to have them.  

 Certainly this would keep the no-electrical-system crowd in their  

 hangars even during the day.

 Bill Mileski

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

aprazer

Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Boise, Idaho

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Landing lights

Greetings:

I'm reading your messages about personal preferences, rules and regs, etc.

when it comes to the use of landing lights. Nobody has mentioned safety!

When I learned to fly in the Seattle area back in the 60's, my instructor's

insistence was that I was to always use landing lights in the congested

areas. In fact it is good idea to use every light on your aircraft! The

human eye has a faster response to bright lights -- a fact proven by law

enforcement, ambulance services, etc... I've found that tower operators

prefer "lights-on" during landing/take-offs operations. I even use landing

lights at non-towered a field -- who knows it may have saved my life a time

or two. I know that many pilots never use landing lights during the day --

so I hope that this blip will influence your decisions on installing and

operation of landing lights!

Mack

The poh oh farm boy from Idaho with a 601XL in completion stages

_________________
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: Landing lights

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Nobody has mentioned safety!


	


Actually I did mention that everyone should consider installing a landing

light in each wing and install a wig-wag generator:



http://www.bandc.biz/WigWag.html

http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm 



-- Craig

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Landing lights

Talking abour wig-wag, remember that (according to previous postings on this list) HID lights cannot be "wig-waged".



Carlos



On 18/12/06, Craig Payne  <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>



 	  Quote: 	
		  > Nobody has mentioned safety!


	


Actually I did mention that everyone should consider installing a landing 

light in each wing and install a wig-wag generator:



http://www.bandc.biz/WigWag.html

http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm 



-- Craig[b]

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: Landing lights

I didn't see the previous postings about wig-wagging HID's, but, if HID 

lights cannot be wig-waged, that is going to be a major disappointment to 

Bill at CreativAir



http://www.creativair.com/wigwag-flashers-kits-c-24.html



since he sells a wig-wag flasher expressly for HID and Halogen lights.



I'm planning to use both his 2" HID light kit and his wig-wag flasher in my 

601.



Terry

At 03:28 PM 12/18/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Talking abour wig-wag, remember that (according to previous postings on 

this list) HID lights cannot be "wig-waged".



Carlos


	


Terry Phillips

ttp44~~at~~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

Just starting a 601 kit

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Landing lights

Interesting. I did some additional searches, and found several msgs on the subject.



This one is from the RV10 list:



 Message: #7801 Subject:   WIG-WAG HIDS Date: Sep 26, 2006 From:  "Neville Boyle" <nevilleboyle(at)bencomm.com.au> 	  Quote: 	
		    If you are prepared to potentially sacrifice some bulb light it is possible to WIG-WAG the HID Xenon globes.You need to be aware that the globes have a warm up time while the gas is ionising and they need to warm fully to burn the deposit left while warming up off the glass (this means the flash rate needs to be longer than 3 seconds per side) The second problem is that most of the commercial flash units rely on a low impedance through the filament of the traditional globe that does not exist with the xenon alternative.On my plane I increased the capacitor size to slow the flash rate and provided a additional earth in stead of the traditional path through the globe filament   Neville Boyle VH-NVL  33 hours  	
So apparently it can be done, but there may me trade-offs.

Happy building



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans

Montreal, Canada





 

On 18/12/06, Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net (ttp44(at)rkymtn.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net (ttp44(at)rkymtn.net)>



I didn't see the previous postings about wig-wagging HID's, but, if HID

lights cannot be wig-waged, that is going to be a major disappointment to 

Bill at CreativAir



http://www.creativair.com/wigwag-flashers-kits-c-24.html



since he sells a wig-wag flasher expressly for HID and Halogen lights. 



I'm planning to use both his 2" HID light kit and his wig-wag flasher in my

601.



Terry

[b]

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Landing lights

Interesting stuff, Carlos. Rather than reply based on my limited knowledge, I forwarded your message to CreativAir, and the following is Bill's reply:



 Hey Terry...

  

 HID technologies have changes a lot in the past few years, and although some of what was said below it true, its not all that hard to safely wig-wag HIDs anymore...

  

 It sounds like Carlos is using an older electro-mechanical flasher to wig-wag his lights, and if that's the case then what he is saying is correct...

  

 My wig-wag flasher was designed for HIDs and just happens to work for halogens as well...  It has a 30 second warm-up time (about 6 times more than needed) and a 1 second flash rate (on for a second, off for a second, which is about double what is needed for the HID I sell) to let the lamp warm-up and flash without significant life reduction.....most likely no life reduction in the lamp at all...  Additionally, my flasher is all solid state and has its own power and ground supplies so it does not rely on what is connected to it to make the flash happen...

  

 One more thing...  Not all HID are the same...  Ballasts and lamps are designed and built differently and not all can be flashed.....it just depends on the technology used (whether is older or newer)...

  

 Hope this helps!

 -Bill

  

 I do not yet have personal experience with CreativAir's HID lights, but, somewhere down the road (just how long does it take to build a 601?) I will have and I will post my personal results using his HID's and wig-wag flasher. Meanwhile, I do not intend to start a controversy. Let's just say that there may well be ways to wig-wag HID lights w/o seriously damaging them.



 Terry



 

 At 10:01 PM 12/18/2006 -0500, you wrote:

 [quote]Interesting. I did some additional searches, and found several msgs on the subject.



 This one is from the RV10 list:



 Message: #7801

 Subject: WIG-WAG HIDS

 Date: Sep 26, 2006

 From: "Neville Boyle" <nevilleboyle(at)bencomm.com.au>  If you are prepared to potentially sacrifice some bulb light it is possible to WIG-WAG the HID Xenon globes.You need to be aware that the globes have a warm up time while the gas is ionising and they need to warm fully to burn the deposit left while warming up off the glass (this means the flash rate needs to be longer than 3 seconds per side) The second problem is that most of the commercial flash units rely on a low impedance through the filament of the traditional globe that does not exist with the xenon alternative.On my plane I increased the capacitor size to slow the flash rate and provided a additional earth in stead of the traditional path through the globe filament Neville Boyle VH-NVL 33 hours 



 So apparently it can be done, but there may me trade-offs.



 

 Happy building



 Carlos

 CH601-HD, plans

 Montreal, Canada



 



 



 On 18/12/06, Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net (ttp44(at)rkymtn.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net (ttp44(at)rkymtn.net)>



 I didn't see the previous postings about wig-wagging HID's, but, if HID

 lights cannot be wig-waged, that is going to be a major disappointment to 

 Bill at CreativAir



 http://www.creativair.com/wigwag-flashers-kits-c-24.html

 

 since he sells a wig-wag flasher expressly for HID and Halogen lights. 



 I'm planning to use both his 2" HID light kit and his wig-wag flasher in my

 601.



 Terry

 	
 

 Terry Phillips

 ttp44~~at~~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 Just starting a 601 kit     [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: Landing lights

That's good information, Terry.



Thanks for going after it.



PS: I haven't decided on which type of lights to use, but HID is back on the list as a viable option. LEDs aren't there yet, but Audi and Lexus will have LED based headlights in 2007... 



http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/06/0412.html

http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=844



Carlos

do not archive 



On 19/12/06, Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net (ttp44(at)rkymtn.net)> wrote:[quote]   Interesting stuff, Carlos. Rather than reply based on my limited knowledge, I forwarded your message to CreativAir, and the following is Bill's reply:



 Hey Terry...

  

 HID technologies have changes a lot in the past few years, and although some of what was said below it true, its not all that hard to safely wig-wag HIDs anymore...

  



[b]

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